Can you not make a comment without misconstruing my arguments? Like half of your points are arguing against things I never said.

And I believe people should be able/willing to learn if they want to adopt a new system

I never at any point said people can’t/shouldn’t be allowed to learn Linux.

you’d rather there only be GNOME

I never at any point said Gnome should be the only DE, and I’ve no idea how you could even make that logic leap.

And not all people learn the same way, you need the pretty pictures, some don’t.

I never said I needed GUIs to do shit, in fact I said I used the terminal and didn’t have problems with it.

Read: It’s me not linux

If by “it’s me” you mean that I consider swapping my distro every month to be deranged behaviour while my friends don’t, then yeah, guilty as charged.

Well tbh, welcome to the real world, sometimes you “need” to learn some shit.

And how Linux works isn’t one of them.

and to break the shackles of Microsoft without spending $45000 to trade Microsoft’s spyware for apple’s, then you “need” to learn how to use Linux or BSD, because short of TempleOS that’s all that’s left. Sucks bro, is what it is.

Or maybe Linux could afford to be more intuitive and user friendly, no idea why you insist in this false dichotomy.

they don’t know “how windows works,” half of them don’t even know what the registry is even if they’ve used CMD before

That is my point, yes.

Hell it isn’t if you’re not scared, I know rednecks in trailers and grandmas that use it.

And yet it doesn’t even make up a tenth of the market, I wonder if there is any relation.

you show up saying "linux sucks

Another lie, huh? I never at any point said Linux sucks, I just said that I had bad experiences with it. But I suppose when you tie so much of your ego to an OS you can’t tell the difference.

That’s fair, I bet they are unfriendly when you show up saying “linux sucks I don’t want to learn make it work” which I for some reason feel probably describes you fairly well.

I never even interacted with any Linux community before today. My comment on this community was from what I observed how MULTIPLE people were treated. But go off, maybe add pedophilia and puppy killing to my projected crimes to further justify how you’re treating me.

probably because I was approaching it with a better attitude and a willingness to learn rather than animosity, but who knows.

Literally where (in this thread, I was definitely showing animosity to some guy in another thread) have I shown animosity?

You don’t even know why I stopped using Linux or how I behaved back when I used it. You’re literally projection your own version of me so you can attack me for daring to not have a less than perfect experience with your favorite OS.

Some are, you are. I was never told that as a noob showing a willingness to learn.

And here comes you being rude, assuming shit about me, dismissing my experience and misconstruing my arguments. But thanks for proving my point, I guess.

“If you meet 5 assholes in a day, maybe you’re the asshole.”

If all of them come from the same community and nowhere else, I’d rather believe the community is the problem, but thanks for the suggestion.

And plenty of people learn to garden.

And yet most people don’t.

Gardening isn’t for everyone.

WOW REALLY??? IT’S ALMOST AS IF THAT WAS MY POINT, NO WAY!!!

I reject your premise that the purpose of the terminal is to troubleshoot errors.

That was an example not a premise. But whatever. I give up.

Was I being hyperbolic for humor? Sure. But so were you (I hope ffs) comparing learning a few commands to becoming a mechanic lol.

I meant more along the lines of knowing the inner workings of a car and how to modify it. But whatever, it was a bad analogy and I won’t defend it.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree that having to learn how linux works to run linux is necessarily a problem.

I don’t think that having to learn how Linux works to use it is a problem per se. I just believe that wanting widespread use while being against simplification/abstraction is an incompatible view.

“learning” is intrinsic to “new thing,” not just “linux cli.”

That’s true, but not all learning is equal. Visual and positional features can make learning things easier by creating mental connections and shortcuts, while computer languages aren’t even processed like real languages.

Moreover, a good GUI should be built with good UX in mind and help the user in the process of learning by creating and taking advantage of existing connections, the same isn’t true in a CLI, at best commands can resemble natural language, which does help, but even that has limits. For example, a GUI’s symbols are independent from language whereas a CLI’s commands aren’t, whether you’re in Japan or in the US, you know a trashcan is somewhere you discard stuff, meanwhile commands might as well be random symbol combinations for people that don’t speak english.

You’re (or whoever ykwim) just not willing to do the work to switch to “new thing,” and that’s fine, it’s not for you

I’d like to point out that I’ve used Linux in the past for 4 years (I only swapped because I didn’t bother reinstalling Mint after switching PCs. I also didn’t even have problems with the terminal actually, although I did avoid it when possible). And my experience was mildly negative, and I interacted with people that also had negative experiences with their distros (positives too, most of my friends prefer Linux), so it annoys me that when people give feedback on the Linux UX and are met with defensiveness and dismissal of their experiences while simultaneously being told by Linux fans to blindly adopt it.

But not everything has to be for everyone, all is good! But it isn’t because “linux hard” nor “cli bad” nor “they are too fucking dumb to learn a few commands,”

Once again, I’d like to point out that I never argued that.

it’s because they don’t want to, people want what is familiar and many think they’re done learning the second school ends.

I do like to counter this. People love learning and are constantly seeking new things to learn (sometimes that is misinformation, so ymmv). People just would rather learn out of passion than necessity. For a lot of people the computer is nothing more than a medium to do what they want, they don’t care about how it works nor do they want to learn. And I don’t think that’s an unreasonable view.

Btw, it’s fine if Linux just stays being a niche OS for programmers and tech enthusiasts, I just find it annoying how every time people point out that Linux and its communities can be newb unfriendly, theyr ar eoften met with: “Am I wrong? No the newbs are just too lazy”.

Lastly, I just like to point out that in this thread OP said GUI are more intuitive, to which you mentioned that gardening doesn’t have GUIs and I pointed out that gardening isn’t intuitive and people bounce off of gardening as a hobby before you launched on a tangent about people not being willing to learn new things.

I believe that the people in lemmy are reasonable and kind and good irl. The same I believe of you.

At no point I was aggressive or said learning is impossible. So why do you feel the need to build a scarecrow out of my comment just to push it down?

All I did was point out my experience seeing others trying to dabble in gardening and made comparisons to how users approach OSs.

I reject the premise.

Here is a simpler one:

People see computers the same way they see clothes, it’s a tool for a job. Some people know a lot about them and some people make their living making or modifying them. But most people just want it to be usable.

In the same vein, saying people should be able to use the terminal to use a computer is like saying that people should be able to sew to wear clothes.

Much like how people don’t want to pick up a needle to patch a hole in their clothes, they don’t want to mess with the terminal to troubleshoot any errors. People expect things to “just work” and that’s not an unreasonable expectation.

It’s easy for you to say that everyone should just know how to use the terminal, but it’s also easy for someone that sews to say that everyone should know how to use a sewing machine; or for someone that likes hardware to say everyone should be able to open their computers and swap components; or for someone that how to drive to say that everyone should know too; or for someone that diets a lot to say that everyone should know how to count calories; etc. etc. etc.

Point is that people learn different things, not everyone has the same interests or specialties. And just because they don’t share specialties, doesn’t mean they should be shut out of important or useful tools.

P.S.: the antivax movement happens because of lack of trust in medical institutions. People should be able to trust qualified doctors to inform them and recommend proper procedures, people shouldn’t need to be “medicine savvy” enough to know what each drug or procedure does before they seek treatment. If anything, this need for “medicine savviness” is what pushes people into “doing their own research” and becoming antivax.

Do you also think that anyone that wants a car should be a mechanic? Anyone that wants a house should be a builder? Anyone that wants to have electricity should be a electrician? Anyone that wants to listen to music should be a musician? Anyone that wants to eat they should learn how to farm? Anyone that wants a drug should be a pharmacist?

People put their time and effort in different things, you might’ve learned how to program and became tech literate, but that doesn’t mean everyone else wants or should do the same.

Sure life would be easier if everyone was an expert in every field, but that’s a clearly ridiculous proposition.

Maybe realize the sheer privilege that is wanting everyone to be a “computer tech” just because you are one yourself. Maybe realize that the only reason you can afford to be a “computer tech” is because someone else is a “hardware tech” or a “architecture tech” or a “electricity tech” or whatever else, and those people would likely also want you to be a “tech” in their field so they don’t need to make things that “just work” for non-“tech” people.

You realize most people that dabble at gardening do not in fact know anything about that right?

Most people that dabble in gardening will kill a lot of plants, and when they do try to understand why, they’re not going to pick up a book on gardening to understand how plants work. They will search on the internet why their plant died and try random suggestions (the equivalent of running random commands on Linux) until something works, or failing that, they will more likely move to a hardier plant like a cactus (the equivalent of moving to Windows).

Sure it’s not as beautiful and is prickly, but at least it doesn’t just die.