Do you know how you make good web apps with good performance? You don’t listen to people whining and bitching about a language, you go out and start coding something and find out where the actual issues are.

Javascript / Typescript is great. There are little annoyances here and there, like with literally every single language, but anyone who says it sucks overall is a quite frankly, a moron.

Our project focuses on advanced and experienced computer users. In contrast with the usual proprietary software world or many mainstream open source projects that focus more on average and non-technical end users, we think that experienced users are mostly ignored. This is particularly true for user interfaces, such as graphical environments on desktop computers, on mobile devices, and in so-called Web applications. We believe that the market of experienced users is growing continuously, with each user looking for more appropriate solutions for his/her work style.

Designing simple and elegant software is far more difficult than letting ad-hoc or over-ambitious features obscure the code over time. However one has to pay this price to achieve reliability and maintainability. Furthermore, minimalism results in reasonable and attainable goals. We strive to maintain minimalism and clarity to drive development to completion.

You now what all of this says? It says that they focus on building utilities that accomplish some small technical task and ignore their users’ actual workflow needs. It’s the equivalent of minimalist architects that make unlivable spaces because they’re technically nice.

Fair enough, this is what my parents did in high school, I just kind of feel like you shouldn’t have to appease people like that so I’m torn.

For me in high school, in one situation we had already been sleeping over at her house with her mom’s full knowledge, so by the time we asked my parents to sleep at my house, they talked to her mom and it was pretty brief and easy.

In the other, her parents wouldn’t let us be in a room alone together, so when we asked my parents about sleeping over and they said they would have to call, we stopped them, said forget about it, and just had a lot more day-time, risky, might-get-walked-in-on sex.

In neither situation did the call seem particularly productive towards anyone’s goals, but on the other hand, my parents never had drama with other parents so maybe I just need to think on that more.

This feels somewhat toxicly parental rights to me.

When I was in high school I had a friend who ran away from an abusive home and ended up living with another friend.

The parent is not always right, so I have a hard time accepting that you should always side with the parent if they’re under 18.

Oh I actually missed the part where he already said her parents are cool with it, in that case I would trust my son and not call her parents.

Fair point, I misspoke / don’t actually think that it’s wild, I was being dramatic.

Have you tried using VSCode / VSCodium? I’ve tried using a VIM based workflow and found myself missing many graphical dev features in VSCode.

And sure, there’s nothing wild about continuing to use a process that works for you, but it is a little wild to insist that your process is the best and other people should learn it, if you also know that it has inherent limitations that alternatives don’t.

In that case at the very least, you should talk to the son before calling the parents to make sure they’re ok with her parents knowing that theyre even asking about it.

Fair enough!

K, now give me the longest edge and it’s displacement relative to the x axis. Then rotate the shape until that edge is roughly 33 degrees off the z axis.

Oh wow, look, suddenly it may be helpful to have a way other than text to draw and visualize things.

My worldview is that it’s wild to choose a dev tool chain incapable of drawing basic 2d shapes, when you have ones available that can do anything.

Mostly agree, but don’t know if agree about talking to her parents.

They’re 17, they’re old enough to make their own choices around whether or not they want to fuck, and whether or not you let them fuck in the comfort of a home isn’t going to stop them.

Talking to her parents seems honorable, until you find out her parents are nut jobs who flip out when they find out she’s even talked to a boy alone.

Though I don’t know if it’s different if you’re in the US with crazy sex laws.

But it’s literally doing that in your image. When a horizontal and vertical line cross the horizontal line breaks.

Yes, as an intentional graphical choice to illustrate the crossing of two paths.

In lazyvim a vertical line, with no crossings, is still broken, as it is two pipes separated by the line space height.

Oh, did you mean the points that represent actual commits? You’re arguing it’s trash because there’s no line between two adjacent commits? Really?

No, I’m saying it’s trash because it CANNOT do something basic like drawing a continuous vertical line, because it is hamstrung by using the interface of a typewriter. A git branch is just one readily available example of a situation where something extremely basic like drawing a continuous line would make sense.

You’ve brought it up multiple times now so I think it’s time you also source that claim. Cmon, source the claim where the code editor with better visual fidelity increases productivity.

I can’t cite internal market research that is under NDA. I can point you to basic courses on design and UX, point you to information on concepts like cognitive overload, and point out to you the multiple trillion dollar software companies that got to where they are entirely through paying attention to little UX details that backend nerds previously claimed didn’t matter and were user skill issues.

Yes, terminal can’t do everything, but I don’t think anyone is using VS code to look at a cube either. Actually, I’m not even sure if there is a VS code extension that draws cubes? So you wouldn’t use VS code for that either.

Bruh, why would you even try and talk out of your ass like this? I am literally using jsCad and VsCode to do my personal 3d printing modelling, and I literally got my start programming using first VS, then VSCode, to build 3d modelling software for Autodesk. Not sure if you’re aware of this but modern websites have this little thing called WebGL that lets them display these little things called jraphics.

Again, VsCode can do everything VIM can do, but not vice versa.

and if I do not want the GUI part, how come it surprises you that I do not use that superset?

Go ahead and represent an arbitrary 3d shape using the command line, suddenly you may realize that a typewriter’s interface isn’t the fastest for accomplishing every programming task.

Regardless, you can be happy with a limited subset of functionality and trying to cram every interaction into text, that’s not an argument that that way is better or that a new dev should go that route, just that you can get by using that method.

I said continuous vertical lines and literally posted a screenshot of it not being able to do it.

It’s functionally the same visual representation of data so you’re literally arguing over it not looking like you want it to look.

No, it’s not. The human brain does not process dashed lines as easily as it does continuous lines. A whole bunch of dashed lines are objectively harder to follow than continuous ones.

You can think that’s not important, but the literal decades of UX research and attention to fine grained user interaction, can prove that you’re just flat out wrong.

You look at the above and think they’re the same, but they’re fundamentally not. Literally just go ahead and try and visualize a basuc cube with this base point and dimensions through a CLI and watch that wow, maybe a fucking typewriter interface isn’t the best for absolutely everything:

Cube([0.37, -300, 45], [37,-98,-100])

No, the conclusion I’ve been saying is that CLI developers are smart people who have spent a long time memorizing commands to get fast at things that can be done quickly and intuitively through basic 2d graphical interfaces.

They’re now either in a situation where the gains from learning the new process aren’t going to outweigh the costs (though still doesn’t mean anyone else should follow their path), or they would, but they’re just stuck in their ways because of sunk cost fallacy.

No, I’m not. I’m just pointing out how lazygit is still limited by being a line by line, text based, CLI interface, and thus cannot draw a continuous vertical line, even if drawing a continuous vertical line would make sense in that situation:

Ok, cool beans bro, try and write 3d modelling software with just a command line interface and you’ll quickly see how a typewriter’s format for displaying text isn’t the fastest for every programming task.

But the VSCode plugin ecosystem still lacks some features available in the Vim ecosystem, and (fl just for example)

Isn’t that basically the same as Command Shift P and / or the search feature?

At the end of the day, the biggest difference is speed. Even very brief unexpected delays can break my concentration. While VSCode is no slacker, it still has some delays, probably mainly because it’s still JavaScript under the hood.

Once there’s a GoLang, Rust or C port of VSCode, I may well switch permanently.

I can 100% understand how big of a deal speed delays can be, but at the same time, not to probe too hard, but what are you experiencing delays in? In all honesty waiting for ohmyzsh to start, or waiting for a git pull to run, takes far longer than any task I can think of in VSCode. Files open faster than notepad, the file browser is fast, the shortcuts and commands are fast, I honestly haven’t experienced any slow downs with it anywhere, and I’ve used it with monorepos that are TB in size.

Literally not, since I’m advocating for a superset of what they are.

I use command line tooling perfectly happy within VSCode, they don’t use graphical tooling within VIM.

I’m literally just advocating for a toolset that lets you use graphics or a cli, depending on what makes most sense for the task at hand, they’re advocating to only use the cli.

Sure, if the only criterion you are trying to fulfill is “have as many options and different ways to complete the task at hand as possible,”

Except that’s not what I’m saying.

I’m saying it’s important to have the right tool available for the job.

If you limit yourself to VIM and command line interfaces, it will mot matter if a GUI is the right tool, it’s not in your tool chain, you can’t use it.

i.e. I don’t use VSCode because it provides me with multiple ways of viewing git’s branching history, I use it because it provides me with the better way of doing so. And when the better way of doing something involves using the command line, it lets me do that too.

People insisting on using the command line for everything is like a carpenter that only buys a circular saw and refuse to buy any other saws. Like yeah, you can do almost any cut with a circular saw, and it’s not a bad place to start, but theres a reason professional carpenters who need to do repeated cuts quickly, accurately, and in a way that is teachable to others, don’t limit themselves to a single type of tool for every scenario.