Second, only 19% of respondents said they supported displacing the people of Gaza to other countries, including 32% of Republicans and 12% of Democrats, while 34% opposed the move, including 28% of Republicans and 39% of Democrats.
1 in 5 isn’t a very fine-grained metric. 19% of US Americans is a lot of people. I’m glad it’s not bigger, but still wish it was a lot smaller.
Still, it’s significant that only 32% of Republicans support Trump’s genocidal policy.
32% is a weird number. It’s a relief that it’s not higher, but still sad that over 50,000 Americans want to do a genocide. Not just supporting another country, but actively doing it ourselves.
WTF! 19% and 12% of democrats to boot. ugh people. we don’t need anymore power. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-11-12
What, you don’t think they’ll greet us as liberators and start tossing confetti out the window as we march down their streets? But it worked so well for us in Afghanistan and Iraq!
US taking over Gaza would be at the bottom of my list of options concerning Gaza. Almost anything else would be a better idea.
The last poll that mattered was in early November 2024.
“55% of all respondences opposed the takeover” = Roughly half of America is not opposed to genocide.
The forefathers were right not to allow a full democracy. People as a whole are shitty. We’ve simply let this republic get out of hand and it’s time we reign it back in.
Yeah, but most at least dont want to send the Israelis weapons.
Also fewer that 1 in 4 back the takeover of the US.
Hey non-voting lefties, how’s it goin?
I’m starting to think Jill Stein isn’t going to carry this election
I know. It’s harsh.
Literally every leftist I know IRL voted Harris and seeing this comment over and over is absolutely hilarious. Either you think bots are real people, think it’s impossible to criticize democrats, think the democrats are not worth criticizing, or some combination of the above. The only thing I know for sure when I read comments like this is that you aren’t and do not know any leftists. What kind of activism are you actually engaging in? What brings you into contact with the community? Nothing, because if so you would know better.
If they voted, then it’s not about them. It’s that simple.
You don’t know any leftists who say the election system is so broken and corrupt they refuse to participate? And you think that any account that says that is a bot?
This is after being told I’m not a leftist because I’ve supported Democrats for years. Not to mention a bigot and a fool etc. etc. High quality reparteé as you may imagine.
So - I don’t know if YOU know any leftists in real life I guess. Are the leftists in the room with us? /s
My point is that I know leftists who think the system is broken and corrupt and would have abstained or voted 3rd party as they have previously, and specifically did not in this election or in trumps previous elections. Literally nothing changed except they budged on their beliefs and got nothing in return. This idea that they should vote for dems because the alternative is fascism is terrible. The dems are bad and don’t care. It is pretty foolish to support them as a party. If you consider yourself a democrat, you probably are not a leftist. I’m registered democrat, I vote democrat, so do many of my friends, but that does not make us democrats or supporters of their party. So, yea, it’s possible that you’ve held or supported people who’ve held foolish or bigoted beliefs and if you’re proud of your support for them then I’m not sure you get to claim you’re not foolish or bigoted.
Dem senators in the 90s voted against gay marriage. Nancy pelosi and plenty of other dems do insider trading and refuse to allow legislation that would curb that to pass. Are those the dems you support? Who’s to know. These people are not your friends and don’t care about you. They may vote in ways that benefit you, or they may not. I’m not a democrat and I don’t support them because they don’t support me or my comrades. If you feel like they support you than you are indeed either a fool, or not left enough to really even want to be called a leftist. That’s fine if so, you can be a lib if that’s what you are, but leftists generally don’t “support” dems.
Literally nothing changed except they budged on their beliefs and got nothing in return.
What does “budged on their beliefs” mean? That they did something they don’t believe in? Why would they do that? Is it because they do believe that voting matters and a vote for the most likely candidate to beat the fascist is worthwhile?
And “got nothing in return” you mean their supported candidate didn’t win? I . . I don’t . . that seems really . . . dramatic. But, okay. Sorry they didn’t get a pony. I didn’t either. I did get a sticker though, that was okay.
If you consider yourself a democrat, you probably are not a leftist.
Contrary to the entire rest of my life, but okay if you say so.
I’m registered democrat, I vote democrat, so do many of my friends, but that does not make us democrats or supporters of their party.
I don’t . . . that doesn’t . . . what the fuck are you doing?
Dem senators in the 90s voted against gay marriage.
Yes. Assholes. Dem senators in the 90s also supported gay marriage. That’s not unusual in a political party, especially at the national level. At least it wasn’t until fascists rebranded republiQanism as they all vote in lockstep. Which, good for them. How very.
Are those the dems you support? Who’s to know.
No, and I know? I guess?
I’m not a democrat and I don’t support them because they don’t support me or my comrades.
Ah. but I thought-
That’s fine if so, you can be a lib if that’s what you are, but leftists generally don’t “support” dems.
Yeah there it is. A “lib”. Until last year I never heard anyone but right-wing backward-ass idiots, racists, and nutjob evangelicals use the word “lib”. Yeah, I get it, it’s supposed to be like a European liberal which is very centrist and yes there are centrists in both the Democratic and the other party.
I’m not a centrist, unless you’re saying reason and process and understanding are centrist. But your definitions of words in general don’t seem to be ones I’d agree with.
“Support” for example. If you’re voting for a Democrat, you’re “supporting” them. That’s - that’s what that is, so you can’t not support them unless you’re saying it’s supposed to be ironic or some kind of dark magick spellz or some shit. You can tell yourself that yoiu’re not supporting them of course, but you’d be lying to yourself.
If you’re registered as a Democrat, you “count” - by all the bodies that do counting of Democrats - as a Democrat. I.e. you are, very literally, “a Democrat” in almost all the ways people count. Which is also strange because most states allow you to register as an Independent and still vote in primaries for either party.
If you want to vote in the Democratic primary and the only way to do that is register as a Democrat, well, you’re a Democrat. Congratulations. But you can’t not be a Democrat if you’re registered as one unless, again, you’re just telling yourself that which is not true.
This whole thing of “libs” and “not a democrat” and all that is just pointless because it keeps us from supporting the same person. It is, of course, traditional, and also my lifelong experience, to shit on the Democrats for whatever fucked up thing a bunch of them are doing now - politics is really, really hard to do well. Tom Daschle is one I remember hating on a lot. Probably a nice guy but really fucked up the whole Iraq War II thing.
In the meantime, what I see from “leftists” is only - essentially complaining with no solutions offered other than “they shoudln’t do that” or armchair hot-takes that mean nothing. What I see from Democrats - in addition to their obvious failures - is policy positions, caucuses, meetings, communications, fundraising, and candidates that generally support the M4A, green new deal, funded schools, etc. that I support.
Any other “supporters” who want to do all the things a political party needs to do well should also do them really really quickly because the midterms are on in like five minutes.
The belief is that one should vote for a person or party because they align with your morals. They voted against their conscience because a whole host of people told them that not to would be to condemn even more. And so they voted to prolong a genocide and now they stand without conviction or protection for their allies they gave up those convictions for. Maybe to you voting is a box you check, but for a lot of people it is a statement of their morals and beliefs. That gun to their head they would not sell out their international comrades for luxuries at home. They sold out their neighbors to protect their family and someone is still coming for their family anyway. Say what you want about “harm reduction” but voting for genocide is voting for genocide. They did so and gained nothing except an inability to say they stood for something. Harris paraded around Liz and promised to be tough on immigration. Who was that for? It certainly was not to reassure leftists that she super secretly didn’t want to help murder people abroad.
Clearly we have very different understandings of the world. I’ve never seen a self proclaimed “proud democrat” at any actual level of organizing. Maybe the women’s march admittedly had a lot of democrats show up, but actual organizers that I engage with are self proclaimed leftist who “vote” democrat but do not identify as one. If a nonbinary person checks their assigned gender at birth on a form with just M/F, that doesn’t mean they align or self identify with that. It’s just the options they were presented with. M4A, the fight for a living wage, and LGBT rights have all been championed by leftists before liberals could get together enough to stop using racial slurs. I’ve been hearing “lib” from the left since obama was in office, but I checked and urban dictionary has an entry from 2005 attacking them from the left, claiming libs are defined as fake progressives who actually don’t care about leftist causes. That’s popular usage for at least two decades. Maybe there’s an age or geography difference that is the cause of this disconnect, but around me most refugee assistance is organized by anarchists and most food aid is organized by socialists. It’s not cliquelike, as there’s plenty of crossover, but what I don’t see is a large contingent of run of the mill democrats actually helping anyone. If you are so concerned about how leftists vote, go work with them wearing your I’m With Her merch. Let them see some libs actually doing something.
I agree with the sentiment, but I’m starting to wonder if putting this comment in every goddamn thread hasn’t become a tactic to attempt to fracture the left more than it already is.
I think it’s time to stop with this comment. It does more harm than good.
I commented directly to them, but just FYI, plenty of actual leftists did vote Harris. It was a whole thing. All this comment does is to demonstrate that this person does not engage with leftism IRL and Lemmy comments are their only window into actual activism.
It definitely does more harm than good, but not because it shames leftists that didn’t vote, it’s because it upsets people that did. Everyone I know voted Harris, just like they voted Clinton and they’re still being blamed for the loss. They are actual activists, so they’ll probably continue to vote out of harm reduction no matter what vitriol libs wanna spit, but it’s gross to see libs act like leftists (the ones actually on the ground fighting for the rights currently being taken), are the reason the election was lost. It was the Democratic Party and anyone blaming leftists and not the campaign (aka people who TOOK PEOPLES MONEY TO WIN) whose job it was to win, shows exactly the kind of person and #ally they are.
This will probably be the only thing that gets any response, and I know I don’t have to say it, but for transparency and solidarity: I legitimately have no hate towards leftists who didn’t vote. I disagree with them, but they made a decision based on values I generally agree with. We all have to live with the decisions we make and they made theirs. I do not personally know any. I know plenty of people who would not have voted if it was 70% Harris, and I would have been fine with that. I think a lot of people who didn’t vote probably didn’t think it would end up like this and would take it back if they could, but they had love in their hearts and couldn’t vote for someone actively murdering their family. It’s hard for me to want to mock them. I’m pro mocking Rs because they are full of hate for others, but I don’t know how anyone can be happy pointing and laughing at a Palestinian American who couldn’t stomach voting for someone responsible for the death of their family and friends and homeland. It’s not their job to make the Democratic Party viable. It’s the democrats job. They failed and now we all suffer. I don’t blame a single leftist nonvoter, of which there were absolutely not enough to do anything substantial regarding outcome.
but just FYI, plenty of actual leftists did vote Harris. It was a whole thing.
Right, like me. Like I said, I agreed with their sentiment (what you just posted? Not so much).
If you look at my comment history from February, you’ll see just how much I agree… I just think at this point it does more harm than good to harp on it, despite being completely true.
Not really sure what the sentiment is? That you should shame a small minority of people who you generally agree with whose decision did nothing to actually sway an election? You think that the Harris campaign was good and did what it should have to engage its base and draw in support? Do you believe that the non voting leftists were actually a large enough percentage to have an impact?
I scrolled a bit through your history and it took quite a bit to load far back (which is great, glad you’re engaging cuz Lemmy needs more comments/community) but I’ll take your word that you agree with them and said so previously. At least I can agree that harping on it does little actual good.
I wish putting this comment in every goddamn thread was not necessary. But when we had waves of idiots shitting on Harris because of (doesn’t matter now, obvs) this - this where we are, where we’re going to be every fucking goddamned DAY - is why I said don’t do this, and they all farted and laughed and said I was bougie and transphobic and all sorts of bullshit.
Y’know how far away the midterms are? Well, get ready because we’re going to do it again apparently.
Howabout all the lefties who want to soliliquize the corrupt unsalvagable horror that is America and it’s evil fascist citizenry just agree to fucking vote next time? You want to go Stein, sure, whatever, do it. Just fucking vote and don’t give us that garbage about a corrupt system means it doesn’t matter. YES, IT IS CORRUPT, well done Sherlocks ya fucking nailed it NOW GO FIX IT.
I know, I was there. I hate it so much.
But everyone who is in that group has already heard it a million times. If that wasn’t enough to get through to them, then continuing to harp on it like this won’t either.
That, like trump, is everyone’s loss then I guess.
Just because they’ve gone quiet doesn’t mean they’re not going to start showing up or banging on about it in 17 months (assuming everyone makes it that far).
They had an open floor with that shit for some reason - some communities were forbidden from calling them russian trolls, although that is a relevant and plausible possibility.
I want no excuse. This will not stand, man. Look at this nation on fire. That’s why.
Don’t vote? STFU or explain why you’re not voting (as it happened, some were not American which - ok? Why are they in the heat of a thread about US elections weighing in on whether or not people should vote?) . Some were former felons which - absolutely understandable and also bullshit that they’re not allowed to vote.
Most, imo, were like a lot of us at some point - 18-22, newly independent and having everything figured out and wanted to sit by and watch the normies tussle over some bullshit about voting, but with a fun, kicky socialist/communist/other “twist”. Others, just straight up tankie trolls.
Where are they anyway? I’ve thought about scrolling back but it’s too many pages in my app so I don’t remember who was talking that shit. Where’s the mea culpas? Where’s the next time I’m getting everyone to vote-s? They still buy that shit?
They haven’t all gone quiet though, and you’re right, they still buy that shit. And it’s fucking infuriating trying to get through to them… I just don’t think the whole, “good thing we saved Palestine!” thing is in any way constructive.
It made sense for maybe a month or two when we were all justifiably pissed and attempting to get them to understand and admit their mistake.
But now, based on the reactions I generally see to comments like that, it seems to just entrench them more.
Wow. How? Why? What misfiring region of the hippocampus can cause someone to think they helped by allowing this fascist to help destroy Palestine even more?
Ones with a specific type of brain rot that includes accelerationism
removes cigar from mouth
We’re working on it.
returns to assembling the bench on the assembly line of guoitiines
Hah. Leopards. ;)
