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oh my god this is why we lose all the goddamn time. why do pro choice people have to make the fucking worst arguments? this comparison is dumb for multiple reasons. viability is arbitrary and irrelevant, and most importantly could be subject to change. some people talk about the fetus technically being a parasite; that makes you sound psychotic.
there’s one argument here: freedom over your own body. you shouldn’t be legally forced to undergo an operation for someone else’s benefit. yes even if the fetus is a person, it’s viable, can feel pain, whatever. there’s literally no other situation where that is even remotely legal. you can’t be forced to donate an organ or blood to your own child. the only reason one is forced and one isn’t is because of the general idea that men will be in one of those situations.
there’s no reason to accept their framing on any of this and try to beat them in some sort of logical trap. they’ll move the goalpost. they’re not serious about any of this. this is and has always been about controlling the woman, and the counter therefore should be about the woman.
everything about the fetus is just bullshit. if they cared about the fetus they’d argue for its wellbeing literally at any point after the first moment of its birth but they don’t. THEY DON’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY BABY. why would they care about a goddamn chick? no it’s always only about women. the baby stuff is a smokescreen to get you to argue mind numbingly stupid shit like this.
oh my god if I were arguing with an anti choice moron and someone “on my side” would butt in with “but we kill chicks though” I would smack them across the face. stop being weird.
there’s one argument here: freedom over your own body.
Animals should have freedom over their bodies too. It’s hypocritical to be pro-choice, but then force cows to have arms shoved up their anus to be artificially inseminated for dairy products by buying their secretions. It’s hypocritical to think you deserve total control over an animal’s body for taste pleasure. Be vegan.
There are 80 billion land animals killed for trivial, unnecessary reasons every year. Stop breastfeeding off of another species in adulthood and paying for chicks to be thrown in blenders. That’s fucking weird.
Every vegan meme I see on here just further convinces me it’s an elaborate joke.
I’m not a vegan but you’ve lost me. Explain your thought process.
The idea that animals are on the same level as humans is laughable.
Humans are animals. Why doesn’t it make sense to protect the rights of beings that can feel and know they exist over biological material that can’t feel or know it exists?
The vast majority of aborted fetuses are not sentient. Sentience is the ability to know oneself exists through feeling. Yet in the US, there are laws protecting insensate biological material but not sentient male chicks ground up alive in the egg industry. I see the moral value of a day old chick as far more than a 14 week fetus since the male chick has sentience and can feel pain while a 14 week old fetus cannot.
Sentience is the ability to know oneself exists through feeling.
no, it’s the ability to feel (especially pain)
Wouldn’t a being that felt pain or any other feeling automatically know they exist?
Laws preventing all forms of chick culling exist in Germany, France, and Luxembourg. Switzerland and Austria forbid shredding but allowing gasing male chicks (Austrians really love their gas chambers). There are ongoing discussions about forbidding the practice in most of Western Europe (AFAIK only the UK doesn’t have ongoing discussions).
Is that really a good thing for the animals though? Instead of being killed right away, they will suffer a short miserable life, then be killed.
Ideally, these male chicks could be taken to an animal sanctuaries. With the scale of the industry and the rarity of farmed animal sanctuaries, it wouldn’t be possible for all of them. For the ones that can be rescued, life on a sanctuary is much better than in the wild or on a farm in a dark shed.
I think one of the problems is that you basically can’t keep many roosters together (I’m not even sure you can keep two roosters together). That means that for a sanctuary you need huge space so that the roosters don’t kill each other. So while I also buy eggs that guarantee that the male chicks will be raised, I wonder how this is supposed to work if I pay only like 50 cents per egg and half of the hatched eggs are male.
(Note that my knowledge on rooster farming comes from a German or possibly German-French documentary on that, so I might be talking out of my ass here.)
(I think I just remember that 2€/egg was the price calculated in the documentary for ethical farming without losses for the farmers. This was some years ago. To be fair - I’d totally pay that for an egg. Egg as an ingredient can be easily substituted and as a standalone dish it can be something special that I’m willing to pay for. )
I saw this German documentary about the egg industry.
They ship the males out of country where they are raised in sheds, then sold to Africa.
I think the best solution is to not buy eggs. A good replacement is mung bean flour. It has similar nutrition and flavor, can be obtained cheaply, and spares chickens from being exploited by humans.
