I never said they’d stop for good. They’ll keep opposing NATO as long as NATO is hostile to Russia, obviously. If you want to think of Russia like they’re just evil people who want more power or whatever Harry Potter model of the world then I’m sure that sounds really scary, but if you drop the good guys vs bad guys view of the world you’d understand that it’s not in anybody except imperialist’s interest for wars to keep going infinitely.
I agree with you it’s in nobodies interest to keep the wars going. But even you know Russia will attack again, and only want to have a weaker opponent later. It’s indeed on the interest of the imperialist aggressor that there’s no resistance.
It’s tiresome that non argument that the only way to stop is for Ukraine to surrender. That they are the ones that want war for defending. “I can only tell my country” my ass. You’re telling your opinion on the internet. I can tell Putin to go die on a trench if he wants war so much.
I love how you say this isn’t good vs evil, then basically say that Russia is justified because NATO is evil. So attack a non NATO country who they had previously attacked because that’s what good ones do.
Fucking hell the absolute degeneracy to even make this shit up.
It’s indeed on the interest of the imperialist aggressor that there’s no resistance.
What imperialist? What is imperialist about Russia?
It’s tiresome that non argument that the only way to stop is for Ukraine to surrender.
Are you under the impression that the war could end any other way? How is Ukraine going to turn it around and make Putin surrender when now they depend on Europe for arms and Europe has even less capacity to sustain Ukraine than the US did? They were steadily losing with the US fully supporting them.
I can tell Putin to go die on a trench if he wants war so much.
Yeah, I agree. No question there.
I love how you say this isn’t good vs evil, then basically say that Russia is justified because NATO is evil.
I never even said Russia was justified, I just explained the reason why they invaded. Like, we can at least agree that Russia didn’t just invade for no reason, right? They may be justified or not, I don’t know what your ethical framework is. I don’t think it matters whether any of us thinks it’s moral or not because nation states are amoral and unfeeling entities. The only thing that matters is power and who wields it; the power to stop Russian aggression is not held by the citizens of NATO countries, that’s my point. The power to stop NATO aggression, on the other hand, does fall on those of us who live within the NATO world (I mean, if you believe liberal democracy works, which it objectively doesn’t but that’s another discussion). So basically what I’m saying is that Russia won’t stop the war on NATO’s terms because Russia obviously will win by attrition anyway (at the cost of even more slaughter), so it’s ridiculous to suggest that Ukrainians should keep throwing themselves in the meat grinder for no other reason than to weaken Russia, a military objective that only matters to the ruling class of NATO countries. They should take the peace deal, put the guns down and go home.
Sounds like they need to be in the fucking ground, then.
Maybe in the Hague. I don’t entirely think it’s the fault of the average Russian solider, although I’m not sure what else could be done if they’re coming over to kill a bunch of people other than to kill them first. But yes, the people who are planning not to stop for good can certainly get stopped in other ways than them one day deciding they’re open to the idea.
No they won’t. They’re terrified of opposing NATO, which is why they react with the same “don’t you dare call the cops” mentality/reaction as an abusive husband does, whenever they think someone in their orbit might be thinking of getting protection from NATO.
Of course, the whole thing is stupidly counterproductive if the goal was for their neighbors to stay uninvolved with NATO. The sum result of their actions in Ukraine is that any country with half a brain (and uncorrupted leaders) anywhere near them is looking around for any and all security guarantees they could get from anyone. Which means NATO.
I never said they’d stop for good. They’ll keep opposing NATO as long as NATO is hostile to Russia, obviously. If you want to think of Russia like they’re just evil people who want more power or whatever Harry Potter model of the world then I’m sure that sounds really scary, but if you drop the good guys vs bad guys view of the world you’d understand that it’s not in anybody except imperialist’s interest for wars to keep going infinitely.
Wow, you drop the act very quick.
I agree with you it’s in nobodies interest to keep the wars going. But even you know Russia will attack again, and only want to have a weaker opponent later. It’s indeed on the interest of the imperialist aggressor that there’s no resistance.
It’s tiresome that non argument that the only way to stop is for Ukraine to surrender. That they are the ones that want war for defending. “I can only tell my country” my ass. You’re telling your opinion on the internet. I can tell Putin to go die on a trench if he wants war so much.
I love how you say this isn’t good vs evil, then basically say that Russia is justified because NATO is evil. So attack a non NATO country who they had previously attacked because that’s what good ones do.
Fucking hell the absolute degeneracy to even make this shit up.
“Previously attacked” by honoring a referendum almost universally supported by the people in Crimea?
But I suppose you know better than the people that actually live there? This is the chauvinism we are calling you out on.
What imperialist? What is imperialist about Russia?
Are you under the impression that the war could end any other way? How is Ukraine going to turn it around and make Putin surrender when now they depend on Europe for arms and Europe has even less capacity to sustain Ukraine than the US did? They were steadily losing with the US fully supporting them.
Yeah, I agree. No question there.
I never even said Russia was justified, I just explained the reason why they invaded. Like, we can at least agree that Russia didn’t just invade for no reason, right? They may be justified or not, I don’t know what your ethical framework is. I don’t think it matters whether any of us thinks it’s moral or not because nation states are amoral and unfeeling entities. The only thing that matters is power and who wields it; the power to stop Russian aggression is not held by the citizens of NATO countries, that’s my point. The power to stop NATO aggression, on the other hand, does fall on those of us who live within the NATO world (I mean, if you believe liberal democracy works, which it objectively doesn’t but that’s another discussion). So basically what I’m saying is that Russia won’t stop the war on NATO’s terms because Russia obviously will win by attrition anyway (at the cost of even more slaughter), so it’s ridiculous to suggest that Ukrainians should keep throwing themselves in the meat grinder for no other reason than to weaken Russia, a military objective that only matters to the ruling class of NATO countries. They should take the peace deal, put the guns down and go home.
Sounds like they need to be in the fucking ground, then.
Maybe in the Hague. I don’t entirely think it’s the fault of the average Russian solider, although I’m not sure what else could be done if they’re coming over to kill a bunch of people other than to kill them first. But yes, the people who are planning not to stop for good can certainly get stopped in other ways than them one day deciding they’re open to the idea.
No they won’t. They’re terrified of opposing NATO, which is why they react with the same “don’t you dare call the cops” mentality/reaction as an abusive husband does, whenever they think someone in their orbit might be thinking of getting protection from NATO.
Of course, the whole thing is stupidly counterproductive if the goal was for their neighbors to stay uninvolved with NATO. The sum result of their actions in Ukraine is that any country with half a brain (and uncorrupted leaders) anywhere near them is looking around for any and all security guarantees they could get from anyone. Which means NATO.