this isn’t a response to conditions. Because if it were the people voting for Trump should realize he is not now nor ever going to help them economically.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Just because a response to changing conditions is irrational doesn’t mean it is not a response to changing conditions. It seems like you’re arguing that Trump supporters give their support to Trump because they think he will ruin the economy, but that’s obviously not the case. One of the Trump camp’s main arguments is his economic aptitude (whether or not you believe that is complete bullshit). The undeniable reality is that Trump supporters truly believe he is going to save the economy even if you (perhaps rightly) think tariffs are going to cause massive damage.

The liberal framework cannot explain why millions of people support Trump because it refuses to acknowledge that capitalism itself generates such movements.

This is why we see liberals using increasingly mystical language (cult). Liberals reduce the Trump phenomenon to irrational devotion to a demagogue, framing it as a psychological or cultural pathology rather than a political response to material conditions. This obscures the fact that Trump’s base is not a brainwashed sect but a coalition of reactionary class forces—primarily the petty bourgeoisie, sections of the labor aristocracy, and segments of the bourgeoisie itself—whose interests align with right-wing populism in the face of capitalist crisis.

By calling it a “cult,” liberals dismiss the genuine (if misguided) grievances of workers who have been destroyed by neoliberalism.

Being lovable does not equal a need for intimate partners.

This is the logical conclusion to “vote blue no matter who”.

And what would keep conservatism from sprouting once again in this scenario?

Conservatism is not the issue; the issue is capitalism. Put the capitalists against the wall.

What makes you say that? It has went over perfectly well for the Trump team, and it was honestly a huge success for them in legitimizing this push for supreme executive power.

Can anyone else think of another state whose constitution explicitly enshrines the right to enslave people?

Can’t wait till I’m hunkered in my basement with a shotgun and my last cans of food, all to see a mouse run by and realize I just got infected.

You didn’t really address any of my points… you’ve just stuck your fingers in your ears and are clinging to blind faith that the liberal order is working exactly and expected, and some higher being is going to swoop down from the clouds and magically steer us out of this fascist debacle… good luck with that. Since you’re not serious anymore, I’ll leave you a quote from Hitler.

“And so, I established in 1919 a programme and tendency that was a conscious slap in the face of the democratic-pacifist world. [We knew] it might take five or ten or twenty years, yet gradually an authoritarian state arose within the democratic state, and a nucleus of fanatical devotion and ruthless determination formed in a wretched world that lacked basic convictions.

Only one danger could have jeopardised this development — if our adversaries had understood its principle, established a clear understanding of our ideas, and not offered any resistance. Or, alternatively, if they had from the first day annihilated with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.

Neither was done. The times were such that our adversaries were no longer capable of accomplishing our annihilation, nor did they have the nerve. Arguably, they furthermore lacked the understanding to assume a wholly appropriate attitude. Instead, they began to tyrannise our young movement by bourgeois means, and, by doing so, they assisted the process of natural selection in a very fortunate manner.

pointing out his lies and failures to people who may have voted for him to erode his support

What evidence do you have that this works? If anything, the last decade has demonstrably proved that this idea is false.

You can appeal to facts and logic until the cows come home, but you’re not going to make a dent in his approval rating or quell fascism. This is pure liberalism: the idea that the marketplace of ideas is what ultimately turns the wheel of history - the idea that with an epic enough slam, with enough scathing blasts, with enough late night talk show hit pieces, with enough appeals to facts and logic, you can convince a fascist to reason themselves out of being fascist. Although that might work once in a blue moon, it’s not how you systematically stop fascism. Fascism thrives when material conditions for working-class people start to deteriorate, so the only way to stamp it out is either to kill the fascists or make material changes to the daily lives of working people. The dems have shown zero interest in doing either. It is pretty scary to me that your idea of “fighting injustice” ultimately just boils down to virtue signaling online about how you’re so much smarter than the fascists who fail to see (or simply dont care) about Trump’s hypocrisy. Liberals are getting mighty jumpy since the only recourse they have included in their poltical framework is linking politifacts on Facebook and hoping fascism magically dies.

Way to dodge the question. I’ll try again: what is to be gained by highlighting Trump’s hypocrisy?

The fact that you not only dodged the question, but got hostile, makes me think you already have an idea.

Every lie he told should be constantly spouted back at him and his cronies.

Why? Honest question. What’s the point?

It literally takes trump 20 seconds to tell an aid to start paperwork for a pardon.

After 8 years of watching the legal system completely and utterly fumble any semblance of justice against Trump, it is bizarre to see you hail legal action as the ultimate method of dismantling the Trump regime. Big “I think Mueller is still going to bring Trump down!” energy.

Nothing will change until the ruling class have fear in their hearts, and if the most obstructive and radical thing you can imagine is “waste trumps time by making him pardon an extra 15 people” also happens to be the prevalent mindset of other liberals, then yall are mega doomed.

What point? That in order for any country to form, it must carry out a genocide so effective that it inspires Hitler? And I am the apologist?

Your comment is honestly psychopathic in the way you use “blood” as a euphemism for a genocide that killed some 10 million Native Americans.

“The wholesale American genocide of Native Americans is Ruzzian propaganda!”

It’s America’s fault that America is turning fascist. You don’t just get to run a 200 year political experiment built on genocide under the guidance of white landowners, and then start scapegoating Russians once that project inevitably and predictably goes fascists. This is American exceptionalism.

The MAGA movement (often referred to simply as MAGA, or Make America Great Again), was founded on the belief that the United States was once a “great” country but has lost this status owing to foreign influence, both within its borders (via immigration and multiculturalism) and without (via globalization, or the increased integration of multiple national economies). MAGA members think that this fall from grace can be reversed through “America first” policies that would provide a greater degree of economic protectionism, greatly reduce immigration, particularly from developing countries, and encourage or enforce what MAGA members consider to be traditional American values.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/MAGA-movement

Why are you whitewashing this?

When a “good” solution ultimately defangs or sedates workers with otherwise radical potential, then no, a “good” solution is inadequate and should be thrown out. Why is everyone bleating this empty aphorism all around lemmy? The simple fact is that the only way we are going to steer ourselves out of this devolution into fascism is with a hail mary: some sort of labor movement, a geopolitical shock, a massive strike, etc… And this (almost religious) faith in “good solutions” or half measures is not worth anything. It’s copium. It’s toxic positivity in the form of blind, religious hope.

A nice list of judge appointments that ultimately meant nothing. SCOTUS gave Biden total immunity, and he failed to stack SCOTUS.