Summary
Rightwing groups across the US are driving a wave of legislation to restrict books in school and public libraries, targeting content deemed “sexually explicit” or “obscene,” often affecting LGBTQ+ and race-related titles.
Texas leads with 31 bills and 538 book bans in the 2023–24 school year.
Proposed laws, like Texas Senate Bill 13, shift book selection power from librarians to parent-led advisory boards.
Critics, including librarians and legal scholars, warn these efforts amount to censorship, risk violating First Amendment rights, and reduce access in underserved communities.
I heard there’s one book in there that talks about a pair of sisters who get their father drunk so they can take turns raping him. Are they banning that one?
wow, the bible is fucked up.
You have to go pretty far into the Bible to even get to the first non-incestuous relationship.
Doesn’t it start with one?
For clarity, I’m referring to Cain (?) knobbing his mother.
The Bible doesn’t portray it as a good thing, and considers their descendants cursed.
A large portion of the Bible is: “here’s all the ways people can be nasty, don’t be like them”.
But do you know what it does portray as a good thing? Slavery!
I mean, it’s a 1000 year old book. Slavery was accepted and normal in those days.
Slavery has never been acceptable, and I would expect a “holy book” meant to be a model for morality, regardless of when it is written, to at the very least be ambivalent on the topic of owning other humans as property.
Actually, that’s too generous. If I were to follow the teachings of a book, it would need to be explicitly anti-slavery. Something that would be particularly important in a time where slavery is “accepted and normal.” And really, a super fucking low bar.
We’ve got 10 commandments. At least 2 of them are about Yahweh being jealous of other gods, and yet none of them are about slavery.
Jesus could have easily said, “don’t own people as property,” and yet he didn’t.
No, he actually specifically outlined rules for owning and punishing your slaves. He (more than, imo) tacitly approves of slavery.
If you want to have this argument, you’re gonna lose.
Slavery was very much and accepted socio economical practice in those days. The mentioning the bible does are often not reminiscent of the 18th century slavery we’re all familiar with. Slavery I’m those days was often a kind of servitude, for a couple years, tto pay off debt. The bible recognises that for what it is and tries to humanise slavery by saying things like to treat your slaves as your brother
You should probably take a step back and realize you’re defending slavery. That’s gross. You should be ashamed.
You can try to justify it all you want, but the fact is that it was just as unacceptable then as it is now, and an all-knowing, all-caring god should understand that no problem.
Regardless of the socio- economic conditions.
And yeah, it’s not like Jesus was well known for upsetting the socio-economic status quo or anything… It’s not like he fashioned his own whip to drive money changers from the temple.
B b b but money changing in the temple was the accepted practice in those days!
We are talking about the Roman era here, mate. The Romans conquered outside societies and enslaved them. Slavery in this context meant that these “foreigners” could earn Roman citizenship. There were some slaves that held higher esteem than some free citizens in the Roman Empire, most notably doctors.
Slavery was not just whipping people to make them plow the land. It was a very complicated socioeconomical construct and it was very much a “normal” thing. In the late Roman era, slavery grew rampant (because it was profitable) and often children of poor, free citizens were kidnapped into slavery. But in the Roman high tides, around the time of Jezus, it was, for lack if a better word, a rather sophisticated process.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome
Slavery has never been acceptable, and I would expect
a “holy book”the Constitution of the United States meant to be a model formoralitygovernment, regardless of when it is written, to at the very least be ambivalent on the topic of owning other humans as property.Cool trick.
I agree.
Also no. It allowed servitude to pay off debts, but all debts were supposed to be forgiven after 7 years, and so it was strictly limited.
Where do you think the ideas that all humans are equal and deserve equal rights that reduced slavery in modern times come from?
Where do we think those ideas come from? The way you say that makes it sound like you don’t believe anyone could come to that idea without that specific religion’s religious text. That projection is, by far, probably the most frightening thing in this thread.
People are fully capable of being good without being forced to. Yea, most are stupid and plenty are nasty but to act like the ideas of baseline human freedoms must have come from the bible is so weird.
I’m not saying it’s not possible, but that’s how it happened in the Western world.
Would it later on happen “naturally” without it? Maybe; hard to say, we can only speculate since it’s not how it went.
But even from a “Christian” perspective, I would agree, yes it would; these values align with God’s will and He would have put these ideas in peoples’ heads even if the Bible didn’t exist.
Geez, so much for getting free will, eh?
There were scores of Christians who thought slavery was great. If the bible was really the ticket into being against it then it wouldn’t have happened in the first place. Instead we get The Americas™, a collection of stolen lands turned into a mire of plantations and now into prisons built on making said the prisoners work for pennies to prop up the rest of the country while many more “free” people are below the poverty line despite putting in their 40+ hours of hard, often physical, labour. Even people that are “paid decently” aren’t getting their fair share. Slavery coexists with the bible just fine, and in fact thrives more in more religious regions.
And let’s be very clear, the bible was explicitly used by slaveowners to justify chattel slavery in the US. Slave bibles that had any mention of concepts like freedom removed, were distributed to slaves in order to keep them in line.
So not only does the bible explicitly condone slavery, it was itself used to great success, as a justification for chattel slavery in the US.
My only conclusion can be that an all-powerful, all-knowing god was aware of this and allowed it to happen. At the very least. And perhaps even wanted it to happen.
All it would have taken was to change one of the several “don’t worship anyone but me, guys” commandments to “don’t own other humans as property.” Problem solved.
The bible is full of “revolutionary ideas” (in the addled minds of Christians who have never read an actual book in their lives), yet “don’t own people” was just a step too far I guess.
That doesn’t hurt free will? Someone receiving a “revelation” is still free to act in it as they will; Christian theology also recognizes Natural/General Revelation in which anyone can find God’s will just by observing the natural world and/or society. Apostle Paul called the Greek philosophers “prophets”, and I personally think the title also applies to modern scientists.
(cont. Mastodon char limit)
Definitely not the Bible, which tells women to be subservient to their husbands and enslaved people to obey their masters. I am utterly uninterested in the moral lessons of a book written by people who endorse debt slavery. Which, I guess still needs to be pointed out, is bad! Even if it’s “only” 7 years!
I understand your position, but I respectfully urge you to study more history, all modern western ideas of universal human rights are based on or heavily influenced by the Bible. Dominion by Tom Holland, despite the terrible name, is a good source on the subject.
Also, sure, we are partially past it, but considering that until 300 years ago almost everybody considered slavery a natural right, a 3000 years old law limiting servitude to 7 years is VERY progressive.
You are not convincing my queer trans ass there is anything worth studying in there to guide people morally. I had that inflicted on me for the first two decades of my life and literally have PTSD from it.
The history can be interesting, and it’s something people accomplished in spite of what is in that book, not because of it.
I’m really sorry you went through that, I hope you can find healing.
I imagine it’s not much, and you don’t have any reason to believe me, but because of it I wouldn’t hesitate in protecting you in these dangerous times.
The equality of women is indeed a point where the bible failed, but you can’t do everything right at once. I’m not a fan of the bible, but in it’s days, it was a good book that taught good values. Values that were better than society was at the time and it really improved society.
Abraham had sex with his (wife’s) slave Hagar to produce Ishmael – and both Hagar and Ishmael were then exiled after Abraham was able to conceive with his wife and produce Isaac.
Certainly not the kind of values I’d want for my family.
Also treated by the Bible as something bad.
Not true.
Can you point to the verse that condemns that behavior?
There’s no specific verse condemning it explicitly, but the overall arc of Abraham’s story is that whenever he tries to be “clever” and fulfill God’s promise on his own there are bad consequences, in this case the soured relationship between Hagar and Sarah, the need of God’s intervention to save his son from death in the desert, and the origin of yet another people that would later antagonize the Israelites, the Arabs.
Lol, bud… Just Google “slavery in the Bible”
You’re in denial.
Not that I think anything in the Bible can be taken at face value, but especially numbers and doubly so, the number 7.
World created in 7 days. Forgive others 7 times or 70*7. Etc etc. There’s no reason to believe the law of the land was literally a 7 year limit on slavery.
Still bad, but servitude =/= slavery.
7 in the Bible is usually a symbol for completeness. The 70*7 specifically is meant to be “unending”.
It is very likely to really be a 7 years limit to debts.
And I would love if the Bible-thumping politicians proposed this debt limit for modern times, but they are all just hypocrites.
My friend, biblical scholars disagree with you. Your holy book is very clear on this subject, and I would implore you to do a little research before saying shit like this.
I did study theology, but I certainly need a refresher.
Yes, the servitude can be considered a form of slavery, but I think it can be useful to distinguish as it’s quite different from the more modern chattel slavery.
And I don’t think it’s valid today, these laws in the Bible were written in and for a specific context of time and place, and the commandments of love supersede it.
Until 300 years ago when slavery was considered OK, the biblical law on it would still be VERY progressive.
Is it just me, or these don’t seem to jive with each other.
so, debt slavery?
Technically servitude is not the same as slavery, but still bad.
Considering that until 300 years ago most people considered slavery to be a natural right, a 3000 years old law limiting it to at most 7 years was VERY progressive.
The bible explicitly condones slavery. Stop saying it’s “servitude”. Buying and selling humans as property. Using them as free labor. Beating them into submission.
This is slavery. This is all explicitly condoned in the bible.
but its practically the same thing. how progressive of the bible.
In that temporal and geographic context, yes, very much.
apologetics in 2025 makes people sound insane.
It’s also somehow worse than old school apologetics from like 2007, at least those ones put some thought into it and generally acknowledged that society changed.
Have you read that steamy story about how Lot’s two daughters drugged him and rode their father’s cock?
So appropriate for kids.
Exactly the one I’m taking about.
So which of the banned books are you saying should be banned?
I’m not supporting banning books, just pointing that the Bible itself considers the events of that story bad.
It doesn’t matter to book-banners whether or not the thing they don’t like is portrayed as positive or negative. Just the fact that it’s there is enough for them.
Well, that depends on how you interpret it. I’d say quite a number of people interpret it incorrectly.
Within the story itself it doesn’t show judgement, just “it happened”, but later on the descendents of Lot’s daughters are considered cursed peoples.
If there’s criticism to be made to the story is that it may have been written this way to justify the Israelites being racist against their cousins.
Whoa, so you’re saying we shouldn’t ban books that have questionable themes if those themes teach a lesson?
Yes, I don’t support banning books. One of the books in the Bible can even be considered pornographic (Song of Songs), but it has been considered a model for a healthy relationship.