So, Ive recently gotten back into writing and been thinking about how much more fun it would be to write Outside. Problem is, the sun hates screens. I have an Alphawrite Neo, of course, but I’ve always been insecure about lugging a weird educational device around with me in public. So I started looking into Eink tablets that could be used with a keyboard and

Jesus H. Christ, that price tag!

I just want something to type on something. Apparently thats strange, so maybe there will be something cheaper as just a word processor. It seems that the only reasonable offering here is the Freewrite Traveler, though, so I look it up and

WHY‽ It’s the same price!

Okay, maybe I could just get a Raspberry Pi 400 and attach an eInk monitor to it. Apparently, this is not the usual use-case for E-ink, but there are in fact e-ink monitors out there! Most were around a thousand dollars for some reason, but here is the cheapest one I could find:

That’s around the price point of a Boox Go, for reference, which has a really slow screen refresh rate.

Why is there no affordable e-paper products that arent a pain to use? I am aware of cheaper ones, but the ones ive seen reviews if aren’t able to keep up with typing in a way that seems responsive. And I’m aware that you can find eink displays (as in the component) for as low as $30, so they should be able to be cheaper than this!

  • Libb@jlai.luEnglish
    576·
    2 days ago

    So, Ive recently gotten back into writing and been thinking about how much more fun it would be to write Outside.

    I know it’s not what you’re looking for but since it’s the tools I’m using for the exact same purpose you’re mentioning, maybe they’re worth suggesting?

    There is no copy paste, no edit, no syncing either but depending what you wish to write, you may not need that—I certainly don’t, and I even prefer this to more high-tech solutions for my purpose.

    • It’s dirt cheap. Less than 30 cents for the Bic (I buy mine in bulk, normal price should be approx. 1.5€), and less than 3 euros for the notebook itself and they both offer at the very least a few weeks worth of writing autonomy. I reckon most countries should have local manufacturers for those tools (less shipping and less waste are always a nice option). Here in France, I like to use the French Bic ballpoint pens and the French Clairefontaine notebooks/papers (it also helps that they’re excellent products)
    • It works great under the sun, on the beach, at the pool, or under the rain. Ballpoint ink is waterproof and quality paper (like in this notebook) can work under the rain and it can even be immerged under water. It will buckle but it will be usable (and readable, if one is using a ballpoint or a pencil) after it dried.
    • Highly portable. It fits in any pocket (and small bag), and the Bic sits nicely within the spirals so no risk of losing it and I never need to search for it.
    • It needs no charging. It needs no software or firmware updates. It has no bugs.
    • It works great with any pen you fancy, be it this cheap Bic pen or some multi thousand € fancy fountain pen.
    • One can use it to write absolutely anything. Poetry, the next best-seller, a secret plan to conquer the world, a list of errands,… You can also use it to sketch, to mindmap, to outline, and so on.
    • It’s not unbreakable but one will need to put in some real effort. Meaning the thing can take a few beatings without any issue. Plus, if it’s too damaged, it’s cheap to replace.
    • Thieve appeal? None. Try letting a tablet or a phone, even a cheap old one unsupervised on any table in a public space…
    • Privacy? OK, it’s not encrypted but at the very least no corporation is spying on my notes, ever. And I’m free to write anything I fancy, without worries.
    • Backups? None. I don’t need any since I use for quick notes that I then reuse back at the desk: ideas, dialogues, short descriptions (a few keywords will often do it’s rare I need to write complete sentences), or stuff like that. Even stuff I want to write about in my journal (that stays at home) I will simply write a few quick words so when I read them back later one I will remember what it was all about.
    • Icing on the cake? Zero distraction. No social, no games, no Notifications to distract me, and no endless settings and tweaks for me to use as an excuse to fool around and to not be writing ;)

    I know it’s low-tech and not trendy at all, but it works great and have been doing so for… centuries (for the notebooks in its current form) if not for millennia (handwriting) and has been used by many authors whose work we’re still enjoying/admiring to this day.

    • RobotZap10000@feddit.nlEnglish
      2·
      12 hours ago

      I know it’s low-tech and not trendy at all

      I doubt anyone here is looking to spend that much money to make a fashion statement.

      • Libb@jlai.luEnglish
        2·
        4 hours ago

        I doubt anyone here is looking to spend that much money to make a fashion statement.

        Sure, we would know it by now if ‘fashion’ was working at all to drive sales. And if it was, by now we would be surrounded by ads absolutely everywhere, and our landscapes would be filled with mountain-like piles of trashed useless craps that we would feel the need to regularly throw away in order to make room to buy the newest and latest whatever trendy crap. That’s obviously not the case. Aren’t we lucky.

        Let me ask you this: for what reason do you think most people buy the latest $1000+ smartphone?

        Is it because they need the hardware, be it the titanium or whatever metal body because they regularly heat their phone so much that titanium is the only reasonable option? Or is because it looks somehow cooler? Or maybe it’s because they need more pixels in order to share a sharper video of, say, the latest revolutionary brain surgery procedure they devised? Or is it in order to share some video of their cat, or their latest shopping spree, or film themselves in front of whatever touristic destination they fancy visiting? Please, do note that I wrote ‘most people’ and not all of them, as I certainly don’t doubt a few targeted consumers do indeed need whatever new features are made available.

        So, as a matter of fact, I do think a lot of people are more than willing to spend whatever amount of money they consider reasonable, be it a couple hundred bucks on e-ink device, or 1 million dollars on a diamond incrusted fountain pen, or even 50 billions to buy their own Twitter (which is also a writing device, mind you). Or do you think a 1 million dollars fountain pen write that much better? Hint: it doesn’t.

        Do I think the OP is one of those person? I have no idea and how would I know? But, contrary to you, I don’t care at all because I don’t think it matters.

        I simply offered a cheap (answering the OP exact concern) alternative to e-ink, an alternative I know is very often overlooked because, well, it’s so low tech (which is not great in a society that has a constant hardon interest for high-tech).

    • blackbrook@mander.xyz
      5·
      18 hours ago

      There’s also systems for digitizing this, if you want to be able to just upload and edit it later.

    • NebLem@lemmy.world
      16·
      2 days ago

      I don’t have much to say except I love the amount of effort you put into that comment! Thanks for making the fedi awesome!

  • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    733·
    2 days ago

    The devices you’re looking for are hyper niche devices that very few people actually want. Most people don’t want more than a basic ereader with an eink display.

    • Cocodapuf@lemmy.world
      4·
      1 day ago

      Yeah, this is the issue. Niche devices don’t sell many units, but the same amount of product development has to go into creating them. The result is they need to sell it at a higher price point.

      This issue is funnier (or more tragic?) with huge government projects, things like fighter jets. They need to do the R&D either way, so there’s a base pricetag of perhaps $200 billion. Now If we build 200 units they end up costing like $1.2 B a piece with most of that cost just being the initial R&D. But let’s say we manage to sell 40 to England, 22 to France, 34 to Australia, etc… we could potentially get their “per unit cost” down to 500M a piece just by making and selling more units.

    • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.worldEnglish
      13·
      2 days ago

      I bet if OP went looking for retail e-ink and reverse engineered it into an e-reader they’d find a better price point and a wonderful hobby.

  • Sunsofold@lemmings.world
    12·
    2 days ago

    E-ink in general is expensive from what I’ve seen. I was pricing out building a little project and found even the tiny displays (a few centimeters on the diagonal) were ~US$50. If you look for anything big enough to be more than a low power always on display, it gets quite expensive quite quickly. Add on the cost of development for completely unique software because the off-the-shelf stuff is mostly not compatible, and the other general hardware costs for making it a product instead of a project, and the pricepoint is not that wild. Hopefully they come down over time.

  • recklessengagement@lemmy.world
    35·
    2 days ago

    They’re expensive but not really overpriced. Boox tablets are essentially Android tablets with highly specialized screens.

    Eink screens (particularly high refresh rate screens, like what you’re looking for) are still a relatively new tech and don’t have the cost benefits of more matured technology like LED/LCD. The cheap eink screens you see have very slow refresh rates and don’t offer the same pixel density, with harsher gradients.

    I’d reccomend getting one used, or waiting for a seasonal sale. I’ve had one for a while and I love it.

    • DashboTreeFrog@discuss.onlineEnglish
      13·
      2 days ago

      Boox tablets are essentially Android tablets with highly specialized screens.

      Yes, didn’t realize this when I got mine years ago just looking for a Kindle replacement I could also take notes on. Being able to install Android apps opened up a whole lot of possibilities, like reading Manga with Mihon, work stuff with Google Suite, etc. Now I’m even looking to upgrade to a colored screen model. Honestly, worth the price IMO

  • CommissarVulpin@lemmy.world
    111·
    2 days ago

    Allow me to suggest the humble typewriter. There are dozens of us (dozens!) who enjoy the tactile feeling of hammering out a few pages with no electronics or distractions of any kind.

  • Treczoks@lemmy.world
    20·
    2 days ago

    Well, the refresh rate is due to the e-ink technology. There is still a mechanical component to it, so what you can experience today is actually blazingly fast.

    The other part is that having the display glass itself is not enough. You’ll need a driver chip. And one that drives an e-ink display fast is neither easy nor cheap.

  • Dupree878@lemmy.world
    73·
    2 days ago

    I don’t understand: why must it be eInk? I know glass displays aren’t the best because of reflection but an iPad gets super bright and takes a keyboard. You can easily find a used one for $100-150

  • paequ2@lemmy.todayEnglish
    17·
    2 days ago

    The Ratta Supernote A6X2 Nomad is 329USD, cheaper than the devices you found. The A5X2 (bigger) is 505USD though.

    Devices I’ve owned:

    • reMarkable 1 (boo subscription!)
    • reMarkable 2 (boo subscription!)
    • Supernote A5X (happy with this one)

    I currently own the Supernote A6X2 and I’m super happy with it. I use it almost every day to diagram stuff for programming. I also read technical books on it. The Supernote A5X (the previous version) was also very good. I just ended up liking the smaller size better.

    My favorite feature is that Supernote does NOT require a subscription! The device also has plenty of other features. You can read PDFs and ebooks, of course. You can even install the Kindle app on it, though you can’t install any Play Store app. The palm blocking is good. There are gestures to help you write faster. There’s a shape tool. Different pencil sizes, highlighters. Paper backgrounds. Hand writing recognition. And you don’t need to buy replacement pen tips!

    Supernote cons vs reMarkable:

    • The Supernote isn’t as polished as the reMarkable. The Supernote definitely isn’t bad, especially the newer A6X2, but it does feel a notch below reMarkable in terms of the build feel.
    • If you really, really, REEEEAAALLY want to pretend you’re writing with a pencil and paper, then the reMarkable will be closer to that. Writing on the Supernote is just different. It’s more like writing on a notebook with a pen.
    • EvilBit@lemmy.world
      5·
      2 days ago

      I love my A5X. Use it just about every day for work. It’s one of those things that’s expensive, but if mine died, I would order a new one same day.

  • Zak@lemmy.world
    17·
    2 days ago

    Rumor has it they’re expensive to manufacture. Add to that a small market and some patents and you get elevated prices.

    Amazon might sell Kindles below cost because it drives book sales on their platform, but it’s hard for anyone but Amazon to make that model work.

  • Luffy@lemmy.ml
    12·
    2 days ago
    1. Its niche to want such a device
    2. E-Ink is currently only made by a single company.
  • SplashJackson@lemmy.ca
    5·
    2 days ago

    Kobos used to be cheap as fuck but I hear that one company owns the patent for e-ink screens and they’re bilking the manufacturers

  • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
    11·
    2 days ago

    If you can live with a reflective LCD display, there are various word processors with small reflective LCD displays that are inexpensive. They’re also usable in bright light, like e-ink.

    https://www.amazon.com/Neo2-Alphasmart-Processor-Keyboard-Calculator/dp/B00T0ZG06O

    That’s $220 for the device with a keyboard; runs on 3 AA batteries.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/186x55r/good_eink_writing_device_with_a_keyboard/

    Good e-ink writing device with a keyboard?

    The Meebook M7 supports bluetooth, and I have connected bluetooth keyboards to it, but I usually connect a mechanical keyboard via OTG cable. It is 6.8 inches, though, so you might want something a bit bigger. Refresh rate is okay, definitley sufficient. I like to have it in normal or fast mode, depending on my mood.

    eBay has Meebook M7s (no longer the current model) for $200 as of this writing. That’s an Android device and will need a keyboard.

    EDIT: I think that the problem you’re going to run into is if you want a large e-ink display. Most e-ink use is for reading books, and most people want fairly small displays for that, so there’s not going to be a lot of volume.

    EDIT2: One other option you might consider is use of a laptop hood, if you don’t specifically want e-ink. I spent a while working by a window, which was really obnoxious, because sun would shine in from the side and highlight all the dust particles on the screen and create glare. I wound up using a monitor hood, which worked well for that. That wasn’t a laptop, but there are a variety of devices that will cover the top and sides of a laptop so that the area surrounding the screen is dark.

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=laptop+hood

    Makes for more setup and teardown, of course, and it won’t help if the sunlight is coming from behind you. But if you already have a laptop that you’re otherwise happy with, it might help.

    EDIT3: Oh, sorry, somehow I missed you mentioning that you already have the mentioned word processor at the top of your post.

    • Wugmeister@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      3·
      2 days ago

      I actually already have the Alphasmart Neo. I just have baggage about taking it outside to write since I was given it when I was in 5th grade, so my bad self talk likes to remind me that “this is a device for children to do their English assignments on” whenever I take it out as an adult

      • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
        1·
        2 days ago

        There are a couple of devices here, but most of them run into one constraint you have or another:

        https://kadavy.net/distraction-free-writing-devices/

        • Physical typewriter: I think that electronic devices have put the era of correction fluid behind us.

        • Alphasmart word processor: Lacks prestige.

        • BYOK: Just a Kickstarter project.

        • Freewrite: Whole line of similar devices. Some of these wonlt meet price constraints. Some might work. There’s a $350 Freewrite Alpha.

        • Pomera: Doesn’t meet price constraints new. A used one might work; I see these on eBay for $100. Japanese-market-oriented, but E-ink and can clearly do English.

        • Boox: As you mention, doesn’t meet price constraints. Maybe maybe do a used one. I see someone selling a used Palma on eBay for $72, and this guy used his as a writing platform.

        • Solarwriter: Mobile software designed to link an e-reader, keyboard, and iOS or Android device into an outdoor writing system. Could work!

        • Remarkable: Won’t meet price constraints new, but there are used ones on eBay going for around $200-$250 without keyboard.

        • Kobowriter: open-source project to link a Kobo e-reader to a keyboard. The Kobo cannot power a keyboard, so some sort of external power source for USB is required. This specifically aims to be a cheaper alternative to the Pomera and Freewrite. Sounds like it requires some tweaking for different keyboard layouts and devices. I would not do this unless one is comfortable with this from a technical standpoint.

  • ohulancutash@feddit.ukEnglish
    6·
    2 days ago

    Eink charge around $30 for their lowest-spec screen. Device builders have to price that in, along with the niche market, and the fact that those who want to use Eink are unlikely to be replacing it for several years.