I got downvoted on Lemmy the other day because I said that I prefer Bill Gates to Musk.
Maybe there are things about Gates I don’t know. Maybe he is actually quite an evil person; I don’t know. But he does at least spend billions of dollars helping vulnerable people, right? And Bill’s stances on global politics are far more sensible than those of Musk.
There are no good billionaires. But I must agree that Bill Gates cannot be compared to Elon Musk. Bill has done evil, but his evil doesn’t compare to what Elon Musk is doing right now
I think it’s a silly to waste one’s time struggling over deciding which one is worse. They’re both billionaires who spend hundreds of millions of dollars undermining the public interest. Gates just cares more about his PR than Musk.
I get what you’re saying 100%, but it’s really not a struggle to decide which one is worse.
The massive cock slobbering that Warren Buffet got at his Woodstock of Capitalism last week was nauseating. All the media were fawning over how he’s still a small-town Nebraska bumpkin. I have to hand it to him he crafted his image perfectly as a “good billionaire” too.
Oh but I heard he lives in a humble little house in Omaha!
“Humble Little House in Omaha”----->
They’re tone deaf. Comparatively that property IS humble in the world of billionaires. But that ain’t no roach infested bachelor.
Yeah i agree with the point you’re trying to make but I know some people with a bigger house and they’re office goons, not rich people
That is his house? It is far from a simple house. It looks quite fancy.
For the wealthiest man in the world, this is a pretty modest house.
It’s a ship of Theseus situation. Apparently it’s the “same” house he bought in 1953… at this point though it’s just the same property.
Gates was born in 1955 though… Spooky music
Woz is what a good billionaire looks like.
He absolutely can be compared to Musk – he’s better than musk.
Yep well said
Not sure. Bill gates ex-wife told his relation with Eipstein was the reason of its divorce.
Which is bad. Bad that motherfucker also made windows, which is worst. I hate Elon but he didn’t make my computer BSOD every half an hour
You obviously never had a blue screen of death after a night of unsaved work the day before your thesis presentation
I would like to recommend listening to the Behind the Bastards episodes on Bill Gates. He’s a piece of shit. Not as bad as Elon, but that’s not really the point.
Yeah maybe there’s stuff I’m not aware of. I’ve seen some people on Lemmy point out that Bill Gates lobbied for the University of Oxford to not open source their Covid vaccine. I suppose that seems shitty on the face of it.
Yeah, he’s a bit of a shit. That would not surprise me in the least.
Nuance is lost on a lot of people on here. All billionaires bad therefore no billionaire is preferred. While I agree there’s no good billionaire there’s a spectrum of bad. Like would I rather break my pelvis or break my legs? Both are bad but one is preferable.
None are preferable. Nobody should have that much wealth, power, and influence.
Thanks for proving my point.
That nuance is not important - it’s not worth wasting your breath on. If people focused on root causes of the dysfunction and the change needed to solve the issues plaguing our societies - we’d be much better off.
The nuance isn’t lost to me, I just don’t care to quantify it and then shout it out to the heavens. It makes no difference to me whether Elon Musk is worse than Bill Gates. They can duke that battle out themselves if they care to.
None are preferable.
Yes, that is accepted.
But, given the reality that billionaires do exist, one that spends his money curing diseases is less bad than one who is closing hospitals serving war round populations or actively starving people.
I think making value judgements on individuals is a counterproductive use of our time, energy, and voice. That’s what I’m trying to point out.
If we focused on root causes and the change we’d like to see to solve those problems, we’d be smooth sailing as a world already.
Well yes, but no. If you see capitalism, which includes billionaires having a right to exist, as a set standard, I would 100% agree with you. But billionaires shouldn’t even exist in the first place. You only become a billionaire, by either massively exploiting your workerforce, capitalising every single aspect of your product/customer and not redirecting your profits back to society. We shouldn’t live in a world, where we are cheering for people giving away their money, that they shouldn’t own in the first place. There is no ethic way to be a billionaire.
To prevent misunderstandings: I 100% agree, that this is actually a good thing, but we still have to raise awareness about the societal and political problems of billionaires existing in the first place.
I agree it should be illegal and it is immoral, but these are the current rules of the game. It’s not that Bill Gates is necessarily evil, the problem is how modern states and societies distribute wealth, which is based on a credit system where small incomes are dominated by large incomes (owners get most of the credit). The guise is that they also assume the risk but we know that very rich people eventually gain political power to mitigate that risk on the many not rich people. The problem then is that there is no easy way for not rich people to self organize and distribute credit more fairly, which also needs to distribute risk as well. Cause at the end of the day, it is about two things: people wanting to avoid risk and yielding credit and people accumulating wealth and gaining political power, over many generations. That said, Musk is a very twisted and malicious personality while Bill Gates is more of a typical rich entitled person with a savior complex.
. It’s not that Bill Gates is necessarily evil
he made everybody pay 50 bucks on their computer just to have the privilege to have a blue screen of death right before saving your master thesis.
Fuckin’ hell you realize that by windows 8 he wasn’t even the ceo and he wasn’t the one who made it he hired people who went on to make windows! Edit: the commenter is a bot (or average tankie idk) the account is 1h old and has made like 17 comments all about how bill is the worst and etc. and saying he has a friend in Ukraine who is hiding from recruiters. How do you signup for lemmy nameyourself subhuman_admin_cunt and comment all that in your first 1h would advise ip ban
I mean Gates donated his own money to help the poorest people in the world. Elon spent his money to become president so he could steal money from the poor at people in the world.
Gates donated his money to avoid taxes and start a big pharma company.
Also Bill Gates comment is about USAID an imperialistic tool which has killed many millions of children. The irony of this statement is palpable.
Down to the wire, though, if Elon is responsible for killing the world’s poorest children of today then that logic should translate to Bill Gate’s being responsible for killing the world’s poorest children of yesterday.
It’s pot and kettle. Gate’s might have used his position of great wealth for some good things but there are also some… questionable things. According to him his conversations with Epstein were ‘huge mistakes’… this is, of course, referring to Gate’s relationship with Epstein - something that took place after Epstein was convicted of sex crimes.
Idk, something for your brain to chew on.
Didn’t some nations in Africa ask Gates to stop helping?
I will wager that some people from some nations asked him to stop helping based solely on the fact that we can’t get millions of people to reliably agree on anything.
People on lemmy know that “A is better than B” means “A is good.” You have to learn to speak the language.
Musk is a shitturd but he didn’t make windows.
I cannot be the only one here who sees tiny hands.
Fuck, I can’t unsee it now.
They look like team america world police puppet hands
Not just the poorest and not just children.
Not just Musk. https://bdsmovement.net/microsoft
Shit pot, meet turd kettle.
At least this one follows the advice of his PR team. 🙄 but yeah.
The guys made windows
Is that a defence or something else?
If it’s a defence, bear in mind that Windows is dogshit.
He should have just raped kids like the others.
I personally sent an email to him at 12 saying his software was shit.
He never answered
Cool story, Bill. Who did you donate to? Why did you cut your philanthropic efforts to fight climate change and disease? Why have you and your buddies fought for minimizing and coopting government for years? Bill isn’t innocent in all this, it’s just a good time to blame Elon. Don’t get me wrong, Elon 100% deserves it, but that doesn’t mean that Bill isn’t playing the PR game here.
Why did you cut your philanthropic efforts to fight climate change and disease? Why have you and your buddies fought for minimizing
The problem is that billionaires should not exist but come on. $80 billion already donated. $7 Billion more just for Africa. Hundreds of millions in malaria research.
Could he do more? Sure. But attacking someone who is doing a little because he isn’t doing more doesn’t seem fair.
Years ago Elon said he was disappointed when he met Bill Gates because Gates only wanted to talk about philanthropy and climate.
The problem is that the theft begins by simply becoming a billionaire in the first place. You don’t get to be one by playing nice and not exploiting a lot of people and rules along the way. Sure the government could be blamed some for not having enough regulations in place to prevent/stop that, but capitalism ensures that businesses exploit any available loophole possible to maximize profit, otherwise you’re a bad business.
While I can respect a lot of those philanthropic efforts, those should not be his decisions alone to make. That money should’ve been paid into taxes and distributed in agreed upon ways. $7 Billion dollars to Africa is just great, but it could do a lot of help here, too. I have no issues with sending $7B to Africa, but that sure seems like something the people should agree upon first, through some sort of national aid, and not as an effort to spare the conscience of an aging billionaire.
Fuck all billionaires. Every. Last. One. Forever.
The problem is that the theft begins by simply becoming a billionaire in the first place.
That’s why that was my first sentence!
The problem is that billionaires should not exist but come on.
Was your first point. I expanded on it by calling out that it is specifically theft and then going further to illustrate that he was using that theft to make personal choices about how that money should be spent, compounding the reasons I find this distasteful.
Forgiving it simply because it’s philanthropy plays exactly into their narrative. Don’t buy it! Don’t defend billionaires to any extent.
theft implies violating laws, which few billionaires explicitly do, because other billionaires made the laws and intentionally provide legal methods to extract wealth from the poor.
while i don’t think it should be a moral issue, i think we need to stop trying to make this a fair argument out of some desire to be on some high ground here. what you described is fucked up and we should give them no latitude. it is theft even if they made the laws. the staggering level of difference in energy put forth versus compensation is ridiculous. When someone makes more in an hour than their least paid employee will gross over their entire lifetime…there should be no justification for the billionaire’s existence.
He DID violate the law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows
Also those antitrust trials
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While I can respect a lot of those philanthropic efforts, those should not be his decisions alone to make. That money should’ve been paid into taxes and distributed in agreed upon ways.
As a capitalist, all of his solutions are capitalist. His efforts to slow climate change are primarily technological, with a focus on unproven horseshit like carbon capture rather than proven improvements like better, less car centric urban planning and reducing meat intake. He would never even consider an strategy of economic degrowth to fight climate change even though available evidence shows that that is exactly what we need.
I think we’re well past the chance of urban designing our way out of the climate collapse.
We need to make major changes in our consumption to even make a dent, but I say our best shot is cold fusion and carbon capture. Those are obvious longshots.
We’ve created a runaway greenhouse gas effect. Even if we cut emissions to 0 temperatures will continue to climb.
Obviously cutting emissions to 0 would give us more time to fix this mess though
We need to make major changes in our consumption to even make a dent, but I say our best shot is cold fusion and carbon capture. Those are obvious longshots.
I would argue for extensive rewilding as an alternative
Both are good. I’m not convinced it’ll be enough to stop things, but a massive help still
yeah we need every tool at our disposal fs
Still the wrong conversation. Yes he was appropriately villainized for anticompetitive behavior running Microsoft, accumulating excessive wealth at the expense of many others, but come on ……
I have no issues with sending $7B to Africa, but that sure seems like something the people should agree upon first,
Just no. His philanthropy, his wealth. His choice.
But I’m with you on inadequate taxation for the wealthy, and that we have a responsibility as a country to help the less privileged of humanity, and should not just assume someone’s personal largesse.
Not his wealth. That’s my point.
It is his wealth. We don’t have to like it, but that’s how the current system works.
The current system needs to be retired. Wealth and power should not be concentrated to the degree that it is.
The human race is committing suicide needlessly, all because of concepts like “cost” and a system and world order that is out of control.
It’s ours. If you ever bought a computer, it’s yours
Well now no US tax money is going to Africa, since people voted for Trump. Most Americans would rather see Africans exploited, starve and die than pay a bit more in taxes.
Gates has history of lawsuits against open source projects. And he actively donates against any real systemic change. For example he has invested heavily in carbon capture technology which is useless to making impact to climate change.
I’m fuzzy on the timeline but wiki says the sco Linux lawsuit was 2003. Gates had already quit being CEO in 2000.
The problem is that billionaires should not exist but come on. $80 billion already donated. $7 Billion more just for Africa. Hundreds of millions in malaria research.
Philanthropists hoarding wealth and resources and then getting to choose which of the poors to allow to have any is actually part of the problem, even if it makes you feel good.
We saw that when Gates leveraged his contributions to force a vaccine that had been developed with public money for the benefit of humankind, to become patent locked and hard for the Third World to access or afford.
Microsoft is perhaps the most complicit tech company in Israel’s illegal apartheid regime and ongoing genocide against 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza. Microsoft’s complicity in Israel’s apartheid and genocide is well documented, exposing its strong ties to the Israeli military, its collaboration with Israeli government ministries, and its involvement in the Israeli prison system, which is notorious for systematic torture and abuse of Palestinians. Microsoft knowingly provides Israel with technology, including artificial intelligence (AI), that is deployed to facilitate grave human rights violations, war crimes, crimes against humanity (including apartheid), as well as genocide. In light of the International Court of Justice’s legally-binding rulings to prevent Israel’s plausible genocide in Gaza, as well as its July 19 Advisory Opinion affirming Israel’s illegal occupation and apartheid system, Microsoft has failed its corporate obligation to prevent genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Microsoft, as well as its boards of directors and executives, may face criminal liability for this complicity.
Microsoft provides the Israeli military with Azure cloud and AI services that are crucial in empowering and accelerating Israel’s genocidal war on 2.3 million Palestinians in the illegally occupied Gaza Strip. Microsoft’s extensive ties with Israel’s military are revealed in investigations by The Guardian with the Israeli-Palestinian publication +972 Magazine, demonstrating how the Israeli military turned to Microsoft to meet the technological demands of genocide.
The 7 billion to Africa isn’t as nice as it first seems either; it’s investments into venture capitalist solutions, much more restrictive that aid and the profits are not realized by the locals
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/12/02/perhaps-bill-gates-not-best-expert-hunger-africa
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/11/10/open-letter-bill-gates-food-farming-and-africa
Bill Gates hasn’t been CEO of Microsoft in 25 years. He left completely in 2008.
He didn’t completely leave, he’s literally the technical advisor listed under “key people” for Microsoft
Saytalla seeking advice doesn’t mean Gates is making the business decisions.
And claiming Microsoft cloud services are worse than RTX’s actual bombs that kill children is a stretch.
And claiming Microsoft cloud services are worse than RTX’s actual bombs that kill children is a stretch.
They all kill children and I boycott them all. You’re the only one running defense by minimizing Microsoft’s role here.
For example, Amazon, Google and Microsoft have all launched major cloud computing centres in Israel, offering businesses infrastructure critical to data-driven products and services. Intel is the largest private employer in the country, having commenced operations in 1974.
Along with hundreds of other multinationals, Microsoft hosts its own research and development (R&D) centre in Israel, and it launched a chip development centre in Haifa. Nvidia, the trillion-dollar chip behemoth powering the AI revolution, has also announced it is expanding its already large R&D operations in Israel. The list goes on
Gates’ advice is reportedly treated as gospel, and he also played a crucial role in fostering Microsoft and OpenAI’s partnership, and consequently, the success witnessed in the category.
Claiming Gates isn’t heavily involved and influential in the business decisions is just straight up untrue, stop whitewashing his contributions to genocide.
In summary, Bill Gates’s relationship with Israel is characterized by his admiration for the country’s technological innovation and his significant investments through Microsoft and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. While he has not publicly engaged in the political aspects of the Israel/Palestine conflict, his actions and statements suggest a supportive stance toward Israel’s role in global technology. This support is evident in his continued investments and public recognition of Israel’s achievements in digital security and biotechnology.
They all kill children and I boycott them all.
You know what actually supports Israel? Food imports. You should be boycotting American, Swiss, German and Dutch farm produce. Cut off their food and they can’t bomb.
Along with hundreds of other multinationals, Microsoft hosts its own research and development (R&D) centre in Israel,
Any company with an office in Israel? You boycott every large business? EVERY ONE? Apple, AMD, Intel, ARM? They are all in Israel. How are you even replying to this post without uses the CPU’s that you claim to boycott?
and he also played a crucial role in fostering Microsoft and OpenAI’s partnership
AI isn’t killing children. Israeli leaders are killing children. OpenAI is super charged spell checker. Have you even used it? It fixes the grammar. It helps write software. But so did autocomplete before LLM’s.
Claiming Gates isn’t heavily involved
Are you an executive at Microsoft? Because if you aren’t YOU DON’T KNOW THAT.
https://www.techspot.com/news/107724-sources-detail-growing-rift-between-sam-altman-satya.html
I resist the urge to become a billionaire every day.
I’ve allowed trillions of dollars to continue circulating in the global economy, undisturbed by my whims.
I’m a goddamn philanthropic hero compared to Gates.
And you can tell I’m better than him, cuz I didn’t have to slap my name on a “Foundation For Leaving People The Fuck Alone” to do it.
At least your ego is bigger than a billionaires fortune
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Imagine how much extra money the countries of the world would have if they didnt have to pay for microsoft licenses and stuff like dat
Never would have guessed world hunger and disease are because countries spent all their money on Windows licenses, great take
Lmao. Not windows alone, but i think there is a larger point to be made about recurring costs to governments from licenses, patents, monopolies, unrepairability, etc. Military spending is one that that is heavily affected by all of those and famously the world spends trillions on military, so there should be many billions of dollars that can be saved.
It’s their fault also, they could have switch to other systems
Yes, but Gates personally has been lobbying leaders all over the world for decades whenever there was any sort of momentum of governments switching to Linux. Sadly politicians are often corrupt or at least easy to manipulate.
Why did Bill fly on Epstein’s Lolita Express?
Wrong place for “both sides the same”. Sure, any of us could do more, and billionaires could do a lot more, but you’re equating a Nazi cutting entire government programs to aid the most vulnerable here and abroad, with a billionaire who has donated a significant portion of his personal wealth to aid humanity, including eradicating diseases
Nah, I saw a year or two back that Bill was pulling back from his climate and disease philanthropy. I think this is just him jumping on a chance to do some PR by dunking on Musk.
There was a recent announcement where he reiterated a goal of giving away 99% of his wealth! Of course you could quibble about his choices of charity and how he built his wealth, but the formerly wealthiest person in the US giving away 99% is a huge deal, and we can not dream of other billionaires following suit.
While Musk isn’t retired yet, how much has he donated to any cause? Yes, Musk deserves this PR dunk
Musk deserves a lot more than just a PR dunk, but I’m still not entirely convinced that it’s just a cynical PR play. Hopefully Bill will prove me wrong.
Do you have a source? The only thing I can see is much more recent, and isn’t philanthropy, but lobbying.
He’s apparently reduced his climate change related lobbying under the new administration… which sounds like a rational response, because this administration is actively hostile to any and all climate change initiatives.
What’s the point in donating to lobby for windmills when Don
QuixoteCheeto is in charge?Frankly, I don’t. I read something about it a while back, and I remember being really disappointed that he was stepping back from that.
Cool story bro.
What purpose does he need PR work done?
Well, a few things:
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they say the only bad press is no press.
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We’re at a moment where anger against the wealthiest people on the planet has never been higher, except maybe during a revolution. Bill is among this group, and he’s likely cognizant that Dingus and Doofus up in DC are exacerbating that sentiment. Maybe he’s hedging his bets to keep from getting put against the wall.
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Didn’t he fly to Epstein Island? Wasn’t it shortly after we found out about that that Melinda divorced him? Probably not the most recent thing he’d like to be remembered for.
Gates was always widely reviled. He didn’t build a vast fortune drowning competitors and locking customers into frustrating experiences by being a Boy Scout.
Maybe you dismiss his actions in retirement as an attempt to resurrect his reputation, but it’s succeeded. Compare to other billionaires. Did he keep building wealth until he died? No. Did he focus on establishing a dynasty or wealthy chain of heirs? No. Did he buy his way into politics? No. Did he only donate to one place? No. Did his foundation fade away into obscurity and irrelevance? No. Did he donate to the most popular causes among billionaires? No. Now try to find a billionaire who has done as much good for as many people. From anywhere in history
It’s easy to find fault in anyone, but this is the wrong windmill to tilt at.
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He made windows. For that alone we should luigi him
Mmm yes. This is why I Lemmy. This article had so many bots praising him on Reddit. Refreshing to hear something other than boot licking
Surprised I had to scroll so long for this article. This is probably the best example (recent history too) of Bill’s actions killing kids.
I’m still glad he called Elon out. Let them fight.
This isn’t Bill’s action, it’s Bill’s inaction. As per those articles, all he did was not support the waiver of patents, which ultimately wasn’t his decision anyway? He claimed that it would not significantly change production, or at least not quickly enough to matter.
It still seems shitty, but comparing to Elon? Who is actively cutting off the flow of medication that has already been manufactured and paid for - to dying children?
Allowing tuberculosis patients to lapse partway through treatment, thereby allowing drug resistant TB to skyrocket in impoverished communities and by extension the entite world?
Effectively guaranteeing a death sentence for infected children, who will experience a relapse of a horrifying but completely curable disease? Children who will not be able to afford the diagnostics and treatments for a second round because they are orders of magnitude more expensive for drug-resistant TB?
This isn’t Bill’s action, it’s Bill’s inaction.
If you had read the article, you would know that he very actively pressured Oxford not to open license the vaccine, leveraging his $750 million donation to the university for vaccine research.
Really? Show me where.
It claims that he bragged about doing so, and links to another article.
But that other article doesn’t support that claim with any evidence that he pressured them to keep their patent, that he bragged about it, or had any say in the final decision.
We went to Oxford and said, Hey, you’re doing brilliant work,” Bill Gates told reporters on June 3, a transcript shows. “But … you really need to team up.” The comments were first reported by Bloomberg.
AstraZeneca, one of the U.K.’s two major pharma companies, may have demanded an exclusive license in return for doing a deal, said Ken Shadlen, a professor at the London School of Economics and an authority on pharma patents—a theory supported by comments from CEO Soriot.
"We simply don’t know what’s in these deals,” he said. “The biopharma industry is applying old rules of commercial confidentiality in a situation that is unprecedented.”
Really? Show me where.
It claims that he bragged about doing so
The sentence after where it says that… You have ctrl f. Use it.
that other article doesn’t support that claim with any evidence that he pressured them to keep their patent, that he bragged about it, or had any say in the final decision.
Not sure what “evidence” you want… Bill Gates said it was true himself and did multiple interviews talking about it which are not hard to find. Every article I can find online says the same story - that Oxford initially planned to open license the vaccine and then Gates pressured them to change course.
It doesn’t quote him, though. It just links to an article. Of which I provided the only seemingly relevant quotes.
Does “we told them… you really need to team up.” count as bragging?
That’s the only relevant quote I can see, and it amounts to him getting them to partner with AstraZeneca. It’s hard to tell if the chicken comes before the egg - does AstraZeneca insist on patents, or does he?
Was it the only way to get a massive pharmaceutical partner like AstraZeneca to agree to a deal with Oxford? Or was it something he personally wanted?
Either way would appear the same - if he was directly involved in the deal, he’d be obligated to publically support it, patent restrictions and all.
The article is intentionally disingenous, as well. It claims:
Oxford sold the sole right of production to AstraZeneca, with no guarantee of low prices and an extraordinary opportunity for profit
Even though as you can see from - again - the same article it linked to before:
After Oxford announced the exclusive AstraZeneca deal, the company said it would sell vaccines at no profit—but only during the pandemic.
Which is - admittedly, temporarily - low prices and an extraordinarily reduced opportunity for profit. Especially given how significantly vaccination rate fell over time.
And:
Under its deal with AstraZeneca, Oxford will receive no royalties during the pandemic
There’s no such thing as a good billionaire, but there is such a thing as worse billionaires. It seems like Bill Gates spent $750 million to fund vaccine development - including 1.5 million that happened to go to pre-pandemic funding of the decade-old research that made the mRNA technology even possible - and over a billion dollars on support for the WHO.
It also seems like he encouraged Oxford to partner with a giant pharmaeceutical company. This lead to them deciding not to open-source their vaccine.
It is a terrible thing to do, but it is also tough to say if they could have ever managed the immediately required production without a giant pharmaceutical partner like AstraZeneca. The first months of mass vaccination were by far the most critical.
Compared to Musk? Who took medication that was already manufactured, already bought and paid for, already in warehouses and ships and planes ready to help impoverished communities?
Who bought an election and leveraged that to suddenly and illegally cut off international aid out of spite and greed, allowing drug-resistant TB to flourish?
Who has the most money out of fucking all of them and doesn’t spend a dime for anyone but himself?
That’s the worst billionaire.
I agree. The difference between the two is stark.
Cool story, Soup. Who did you donate to?
“Donate” = tax evasion
Oh no, millions of human lives saved by “tax evasion”, let me clutch my pearls closer
Saved my ball. He’s using poor people it to trail untested vaccines
You have a generally submissive mindset, dont ya? I bet you tip your landlord
Nobody, but I voted for Harris. Last I saw, Gates was cutting back on donating to his foundation that fights infectious diseases in the developing world.
So you’re just whingeing online about someone who plans to spend 99% of their wealth on saving millions of lives, while you’ve done fuck-all.
Let me stop what I’m doing so I can clap for you and your moral high ground.
Oh no, not my ego!
It’s not his wealth. It’s ours. Heard of the windows tax?
Elon is a Nazi
Remember there are no good billionaires. No amount of “good” they do will ever be enough.
Chuck Feeney is the closest we will ever get to a “good” billionaire. Donated over 99% of his wealth and spent his retirement being only worth $2 million.
Yeah, but that’s why it’s great to see them fighting each other. Nobody else seems able to do it better.
Fighting lol…
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Sure, but Bill Gates is as benign as it gets.
He’s an Edison, he’s a Carnegie, he’s a Rockefeller. He’s a robber baron like countless before and that on its own is enough of a condemnation.
Dude single-handedly ruined many, many foss and other software projects because he couldn’t buy, bully, or otherwise get obscenely rich from. He would use windows’ reach to kill projects. “Windows ain’t done until wordperfect won’t run”
He played dirty to get his money and now that he’s “won” and has enough money for his family to be generationally wealthy for ever he’s donating amounts that don’t cut into his oligarch lifestyle. Guess he hired a good PR team though, cuz everyone seems to forget what he did to get so filthy rich.
Not to jump down your throat over it - I just hate that he’s managed to erase the shitty things he’s done by donating the money he got by doing shitty things.
You’re exhausting.
Yes, all billionaires are bad, just like all mountains are big. But some mountains are bigger than others. Amazing concept, I know.
👅👢
Calling a billionaire “benign” then getting pissy when I give evidence to the contrary is weak shit.
Also, so long as we’re trading insults i think ill go with “Fragile Ego Piss Baby who thinks some boots don’t taste that bad”
They said “as benign as it gets” which is not the same thing as “benign.” To give evidence to the contrary, you must find a more benign billionaire than Bill Gates.
Tata (volume), Scott(uncontrolled), Carnegie (proportional) all beat Gates.
Your evidence that he is bad is that windows is bad.
Our evidence that Bill Gates isn’t that bad is that Bill Gates has directly saved millions of lives by donating the vast majority of his wealth to an organization he created to supply medicine, food, and water to the world’s poorest regions namely Africa.
I feel like we’re not on the same intellectual playing fields.
what about the numerous sexual harassment lawsuits, decades long friendship with Epstein including numerous trips on the lollita express and his longstanding board membership of Berkshire Hathaway which has presided over numerous ethics violations?
The flight logs do not show that Bill Gates has ever visited the island on any plane. The most that has been confirmed is that Bill Gates flew from New Jersey to Florida on a private plane owned by Epstein once and that he had dinner with Epstain exactly once, which in interviews he expressed as a major mistake. I remind you that before 2006 Epstein was a public figure as a professional financier and broker and even until 2019 him and Ghislaine participated in major fundraisers.
Furthermore, your claim is one that gets constantly circulated by right wing nutjobs after a particularly viral tweet in 2023.
What friendship. He was never at the island according to records. Unless you have some proof.
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Why does society need to have billionaires? Why can’t (e.g.) Bill Gates just participate in society based on his own merits like the rest of us?
Why does society need to have billionaires?
It doesn’t. In an ideal utopian society there wouldn’t be billionaires.
But, given the reality that billionaires do exist, I’d rather have them using their accumulated wealth on disease curing/prevention than them just sitting on the money or using it to actively fuck over entire populations (like Musk has been doing).
That doesn’t mean Gatws or Buffet are *good billionaires *, it means they are less bad.
Shades of grey exist. Nuance is a real auseful ful thing.
I’ll reiterate the point from my other comment. Value judgements are a waste of time, energy, and our voices.
Whether or not Bill Gates is worse than Elon Musk is just as important as to whether Tom Cruise is a better actor than Leonardo DiCaprio. Neither value judgement is worth my breath. It’s a pointless exercise.
We are reaching a critical junction in our timeline where these billionaires can not and should not exist any longer. We’ve learned our lessons, their benefit and merit is irrelevant because even the best billionaires sit silently and are complicit. They have power, influence, and wealth - all the ingredients needed to directly affect change.
At best, they throw around pennies that don’t address root causes and play the PR game, or play the blame game by focusing on individuals who are absolutely not responsible for the root causes of various issues that plague our societies.
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I’m not suggesting that they be murdered. You’re saying some are worse than others, I’m just saying the concept should die.
Thanks for agreeing with my sentiment loosely, sorry to trigger you.
Wow. Deep.
Evil isn’t graded on a scale, bud.
So Bill Gates is as bad as Hitler?
Bill Gates is as bad as Bill Gates. You’re trying to get a gotcha without understanding what I said.
Genius.
if you can’t compare evils then there is no reason for someone to try to become less evil.
What?
Lol, dude thinks any of these billionaires give an iota of a fuck how we plebs rank them 🤣
This thread is so embarrassing.
The real world isn’t binary, bud.
He was until he forced patents onto a vaccine that was supposed to be free to the entire world.
Gates is responsible for millions of people in the Third World dying or getting long covid.
His foundation has done a lot of good, for sure, and he’s actively giving away his billions. I think a lot of people just object to billionaires on principle, I do too TBH
Just not being as bad as Elon doesn’t mean he isn’t bad. It’s like saying that alcoholic drunk asshole husband who beats his wife and kids isn’t as bad as Ted Bundy.
He made windows
How many children died because Bill Gates lobbied for the Oxford Covid-19 vaccine to be patented?
Idk how many people have died from Covid 19 vax? I keep taking it and my cock is huge, no other side effects
This. Thank you.
That was a villain level move from Gates. The behaviour of the rich nations towards the LICs over covid vaccines was absolutely shameful and destroyed the illusion of Gates’ benevolence.
Gates is always whitewashing his own future or past actions when he does something philanthropic tbh
Your claim seems a bit BS. It was apparently to have a better distribution and quality.
AstraZeneca claimed not to get profits from the vaccine sales. This seems kind of fair knowing that doses were sold at about $4 USD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford–AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine#Early_development - https://reliefweb.int/report/world/uk-donates-20-million-more-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccines-countries-need)
Unless you’re talking about the side effects?
It was apparently to have a better distribution and quality.
This is bullshit. The Oxford vaccine was specifically designed to be manufactured using existing processes and distribution channels.
AstraZeneca claimed not to get profits from the vaccine sales.
If the whole world got effective covid vaccines at cost of production then no-one would pay Pfizer for their novel (and expensive) technology. Gates Foundation secured a return of over 15 times more than its initial investment in BioNTech.
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If the whole world got effective covid vaccines at cost of production then no-one would pay Pfizer for their novel (and expensive) technology. Gates Foundation secured a return of over 15 times more than its initial investment in BioNTech.
Sadly, that’s the world we live in. The investment is shady, but hey, everyone invests soo… however, changing sides every few days sucks, but at least they don’t stuck with a set idea. Not sure what to think of it.
The oxford vaccine was discontinued because it had some side effects that newer and better vaccines didn’t have I believe.
Research is done because there’s profit to be made. A non-for-profit lab would be great though
This is bullshit. The Oxford vaccine was specifically designed to be manufactured using existing processes and distribution channels.
Source? Found nothing of the sort
4$ per dose is quite a lot of money for African countries. Not patenting it would allow them to create their own, which he blocked based on bullshit reasoning.
I did try to find unit costs for Cuba’s vaccine but failed. While doing that I found a paper analysing distribution costs in Vietnam and long story short it can easily cost four bucks just to get the stuff from the plant into people’s arms.
Not patenting it would allow them to create their own
Patenting it and licensing it also allows them to create their own, but now they need a plant to do that, which requires things like reliable electricity, infrastructure to enable supply of raw materials, whatnot. It’s not like you can brew that kind of thing in a bathtub. What patenting also does is stop random Indian pharma producers from cooking it up and selling it to Botswana without giving you a cut, that is, the wrong private enterprise profiting off it. One that didn’t incur costs doing studies so that regulators would greenlight it.
From what I gather most of the doses used overall in the world were AstraZeneca, and much of it was given to countries for free, with western countries stemming the bill, not AstraZeneca. The EU apparently (it’s in your wiki link) brought the price down to €1.78 because the EU was supplying the production capacity, and €12 for Pfizer/Biontech, which was never in the race for distribution to poor countries in the first place because it requires a tight, and very cool, cooling chain. Forget about the four bucks per dose for distribution in that case.
Would this all have been better in a socialist world? Yes. But that’s not what the situation on the ground was during the pandemic so stop making the perfect the enemy of the good, western countries (excluding the US) were up to the task not getting fucked over by big pharma, and passed that on to other countries.
Or NOT patenting it and open sourcing the vaccine so it doesn’t cost any money for them to license and we’re not gatekeeping life saving medicine. Just a thought.
See the point about random companies selling it for profit. A patent license does not have to cost anything. Don’t know if AstraZeneca did give it away for free to poor countries which do happen to have the right kind of production capability under a “produce for yourself but don’t sell it” kind of deal, but it’s definitely a thing that you can do.
The patent itself isn’t evil, it’s all about how it’s used. And btw open source licenses rely on copyright law, especially anything GPL-like would not work without it.
Congrats, you’ve done research and thus got downvoted.<_>
Sadly we don’t have the specifics about what increases the price, but I think it’s fair to say that they probably have an automated process of creating those vaccines, and as such, idk if other labs could create a dose for less than this amount, especially if they don’t have many funds. I’d argue not, but what do I know
Given that the Gates Foundation backpedaled that stance shortly after:
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Sorry? Exactly when did Oxford open source it’s vaccine and allow manufacturing by companies other than Astrazeneca?
The WTO adopted the proposed partial waiver of vaccines in 2022. Several nations adopted a complete patent waiver for all vaccines. The Gates Foundation endorsed it after Bill’s initial objections.
Reversing opinions after the damage has been done is nothing but a PR stunt. My question again.
Which other companies produced the Oxford Vaccine?
I just explained to you that the patent waivers were a thing after the Gates Foundation endorsed them. WTF do you mean “after damage was done”?
patent waivers were a thing after the Gates Foundation endorsed them.
Too late to damage the share price of their Pharma holdings.
Gates flew to Oxford and forced (as a provder of funding) the University into an exclusive deal with AstraZeneca.
There has been no Oxford vaccine production by any other company.
Late patent wavers are shutting the door after the horse has bolted. The mRNA technology already had its population scale field test.
How did he backpedaled. The thing got patented?
The WTO adopted a limited patent waiver and some countries adopted a total waiver for all vaccines.
For more information and a timeline of events https://petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/11/08/what-happened-to-the-covid-19-vaccine-patent-waiver/
In the end Bill Gates voiced an opinion and the Gates Foundation reversed his opinion, neither being particularly impactful on the outcome.
i heard about that, he advocated for expensive equipment, medicaiton only produced by the us.
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Gates should hire a hit man to take out Musk.
I really do think it would be fun to compile all of the billionaires in the world and just have them fight to the death in a gladiator kind of rig. Would be awesome.
Kat and Kropp get in an argument over the war as they rest from an hour’s worth of drill (occasioned by Tjaden’s not saluting a major properly). Kat believes the war would be over if leaders gave all the participants “the same grub and the same pay,” as he says in a rhyme. Kropp believes the leaders of each country should fight each other in an arena to settle the war; the “wrong” people currently do the fighting.
Erich Maria Remarque - All Quiet on the Western Front 1929
I feel like the only way it would work is if they got to keep the money of whoever they killed as long as that person had over a billion dollars… and I would almost be OK with that.
I like to imagine it would reduce the collateral damage the rest of society faces when these people have a dick waving contest.
Roided out billionaires with their hearts exploding out their chests from experimental steroids would really mix things up in a good way. He’ll maybe we’d get some truly sick cybernetic out of it too.
Y…yeah … sure. Yeah totally. The last one standing totally gets to keep everything and will absolutely be leaving the arena alive. Yup. That’s how we’ll do it.
This guy gets it.
Wealth concentration is bad, so multiple billionaires is better than one super-duper-billionaire.
So are you Bill. You utter piece of shit.
Fuck all Billionaires
“I haven’t killed as many kids in so short a timeframe,” is the implication here.
Bill Gates might hold the record for number of starving babies saved and illnesses cured, though.
Even if you think his wealth is stolen, can you prove the average american would have done more good with it?
But plenty of Americans are still dying of malnutrition, dehydration, heat stroke, hypothermia, and many other preventable diseases. You think we’d be worse off if the average American had more money?
And nothing against helping starving children in foreign countries or whatnot, but if we’re so bad off that people think more police and prisons are the answer we’re clearly underinvesting in our own well-being.
Dehydration is a major cause of pediatric illness and death worldwide, some number between 14% and 30% of fatalities in infants and toddlers.
In the USA it does not even make the top 10, with some number lower than 1.6% according to the CDC.
You’re actually required by law to provide drinkable water to people who ask in some states, though there is no federal recognition. There are also many programs to assist with heating and cooling for those who cannot afford it.
You don’t deserve an extra side of fries more than a starving child in Afghanistan. Get over yourself.
Side of fries? How about a side of affordable housing, affordable health care, and free quality education?
Assume Bill Gates is worth 102,200,000,000 according to Forbes
That could be split evenly among 340 Million americans as $300 each.
Can you afford housing and education with an extra $300?
Not all of us need $300. I don’t and I’m not asking for it. I’m asking for more help for the people that will die or turn to crime because their needs aren’t met.
I’m out of the loop.
I’m not down with hoarding of wealth or the shit software he’s made, but what are the allegations against Gates? (The legit ones, not the “he’s putting microchips in Covid vaccines” shit)
During the pandemic, he crippled COVID-19 vaccination efforts in the global south by pressuring Oxford not to open source their vaccine.
https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the-world-loses-under-bill-gates-vaccine-colonialism/
The Gates Foundation backpedaled that stance shortly after. Their initial objection was over quality assurance.
The Gates Foundation backpedaled that stance shortly after
can you provide a source for this?
Their initial objection was over quality assurance
Who is he to decide this? He is not an epidemiologist or a public health expert or a leader of a low-resource nation or even a health professional. He’s a tech billionaire. This is exactly the problem.
Many large US companies, including pharmaceutical drug retailers, directly invest in the Gates Foundation Trust, creating a massive conflict of interest which is rarely talked about.
The Gates Foundation backpedaled that stance shortly after
can you provide a source for this?
Literally the first search result LINK
Who is he to decide this?
He was cohosting the multinational committee event for Gavi, a vaccine alliance which includes the WHO ans UNICEFF. He is widely respected there because he runs an organization which spent decades of providing medicines and vaccines across the globe.
Literally the first search result LINK
This appears to be just a statement of support for “narrow” patent waviers during the pandemic. This is not the same as open licensing the Oxford vaccine and calling this “backpedaling” is misleading at best.
Goalpost successfully shifted, gj team
Question is, how many vaccines would those countries have got if it wasn’t patented?
AstraZeneca sold the vaccines without making a profit
Gates has history of lawsuits against open source projects. And he actively donates against any real systemic change. For example he has invested heavily in carbon capture technology which is useless to making impact to climate change.
Just imagine a World where ALL governments, ALL schools of all countries did not have to pay a fee to the then world richest man.
Imagine if a fraction of those governments invested instead on infrastructure, both physical (imagine literal bridges going to schools) and software (as some are doing now) or better paid teachers. Imagine that some of that money would be invested in Linux, gcompris, etc.
That’s the genuine cost of Gates wealth.
Think I’m a “communist” for thinking that? Well I guess then the American DoJ is on that boat too because the 2001 antitrust law case was a landmark, not a matter of my opinion.
So… yes, he’s a billionaire who did donate a lot of money, but how did he get that money in the first place? It wasn’t his to donate to.
Bonus : as others also highlighted Gates isn’t sadly just about software, he’s also, unfortunately, about intellectual property more broadly (because that is how he made his fortune) in health business (not health care) cf e.g. https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the-world-loses-under-bill-gates-vaccine-colonialism/
If he stole tens of billions from the Americans then donated it to starving children in the poorest region, isn’t that still a net possitive? It’s like the tech dystopian Robin Hood.
In your analogy that’d still be Robin Hood coming from a very rich family, accumulating more wealth that anybody he knows around him, fighting with his best friends to keep more, getting indicted by the most powerful government on Earth because he abused his power… then giving only a very small fraction of his wealth to some starving children while still sitting in his mansions, accumulating still more money without working.
That’s not the Robin Hood of my childhood to say the least. To me that’s clearly not a net positive.
I do recommend listening to the episode of Behind the Bastards to get a clearer view of the entire process, not “just” imagining a “net positive” outcome regardless of the path that lead to it.
Edit : sorry but while re-reading what I wrote, somehow confabulating the richest man on Earth for years to Robin Hood shows how excellent his PR work was. Like… what the fuck?!
Edit2: oh yeah and Robin Hood would fight for Big Pharma during a worldwide pandemic, … no, absolutely NOT Robin Hood.
Small Fraction?! It’s been over 90% of income for decades, recently he’s vowed to distribute 99% of not just income but total wealth.
“Forbes magazine ranked him as the world’s wealthiest person for 18 out of 24 years between 1995 and 2017, including 13 years consecutively from 1995 to 2007. He became the first centibillionaire in 1999, when his net worth briefly surpassed $100 billion. According to Forbes, as of May 2025, his net worth stood at US$113 billion, making him the thirteenth-richest individual in the world.”
Wake up. Not Robin Hood.
That doesn’t argue any of the things that I said.
Motherfucker met with Epstein multiple times. That should be enough to say he is just as bad as Elon.
He is also buying up farm land for pennies on the dollar for himself. His education reform was such a painful failure we continue to pay for it. The gates foundation thought they knew mkre than educators and spent a shit ton of money to run an experiment.“aimed at making teachers more effective” my ass. How do you make people more effective when you don’t listen to their needs? Time and time again bill turned educators away or straight up didn’t listen to them when they expressed concerns. Kinda reminds me of doge raiding the department of education now that I think about it. Bill just fucked shit up in a more clean non obvious manner.
He continues to hoard his wealth and placate everyone with his “i am going to donate a lot, don’t worry fellas” statements. Bill why are you waiting til 2045 to donate $200 billion? Why not fight elon now if you are so worried? Because he isn’t.
He is evil just like the rest of them. He has just done a better job at reorganizing the skeletons in the closet over the years to stop people questioning.
Yeah this just seems like a troll or argument for the sake of argument. It’s just too preposterous an argument
Did Melon discover Lemmy?
I must have missed those, thanks for reminding me. Btw can u recommed podcast similiar to behind the bastards.
Well, if you like BtB, you’ll probably enjoy any and all Cool Zone Media pods.
But if I take similar here to mean: Episodic true history that is partly educational, partly comedic, with an air of “How the fuck did this ever happen?”
There are a few that fit:
- Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine
- Darknet Diaries
- Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
- If Books Could Kill
- You’re Wrong About
- Build For Tomorrow
Some other ones that I always recommend:
- You Are Not So Smart
- Team Human
- Cory Doctorow’s Craphound
- Molly White’s Citation Needed
- Very Bad Wizards
- Knifepoint Horror
Thanks for the list! I have started to “You Are Not So Smart” and I already like it.
Cory Doctorow’s Craphound
Oh, I didn’t know he had a podcast! Added, thanks
He’s the lesser of two weevils, though.
Let him out his money where his mouth is
He kinda already has. Supposedly already over 100B in charitable donations and has pledged another 100B (basically all of his fortune at) over the next 20 years
The lesser of two evils are still evil
Yep. Equally evil.
- One guy already donates $100B and pledging most of his fortune
- other guy a Nazi who not only makes no donations despite being at times richest person on the planet, but leveraged his wealth to end government programs assisting the less fortunate both in the us and globally
I can see how these look the same. /s
Woosh
so this is what he meant by eliminated world hunger, by killing them directly or indirectly.
It’s logical: no people -> no hunger.
and that’s how you know it didn’t even occur to him. he just did it for the sake of cruelty.
The only way to get rid of poverty is to get rid of the poor.
No need for envy. He owns enough farmland that he can easily top Musk by rising prices to let many more children starve to death.
Gates does own 80 percent of US farmland, for anyone interested
I was promised Bill Gates would give me 5G’s with a vaccine.
